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Why do we work so hard?

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Re: Why do we work so hard?

#101

Post by LAMike »

gyardley wrote: post #33
buf wrote: post #7

I moved to SF in 2008 as a poor college grad. Since then, I've spent all of my time in startups. It's an unhealthy addiction and it's going to kill me. I was the third engineer at Eventbrite, and I spent years working many extra hours. After 4 years, it felt like I worked 10 years. I quit and moved to Europe to try to leave the startup scene, but a month later, I found myself the CTO of a startup in London. The addic…

Of course it could happen - there's nothing inherent that keeps you from downshifting and enjoying your life more. Even if you're truly addicted to work, addictions can be beaten. I have to admit I find articles like this completely perplexing. As soon as I achieved a little bit of professional success, I dropped full-time work like a hot rock, and I don't miss it at all.

How did you escape the cycle? Or are you living off of a big exit?

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#102

Post by tajen »

itsAllTrue wrote: post #5

The only reason I work hard is to surround myself with people I respect. When I find myself pushed into situations where irritating people have crept into the mix, and no one seems to be willing or able to do anything about that, I look for an exit. Boss' nephews. Obnoxious assholes who constantly talk about getting laid. Bitchy careerist ladies who constantly demand bullshit, and seem to foment panic with every brea…

Try to respect more people. Like the Petit Prince of Saint Exupery who can see through "boxes". That's one thing I loved learning in my life. And I'm a founder. Attitude works as a manager, not as a founder. You also need to understand the ins and outs of people, not just where they are today.

I was sharing a flat in Australia with a waiter from Thai origins. He used to make sentences without a verb. He couldn't articulate an argument. Things in life were either "bad" or "the best" for him. Every movie was his favourite movie. He can't read the price of butter. I call that illiterate.

But the guy was born without a mother. He was in a countryside boarding school. At 17 he found a grant for a cook school in Australia. He starved for 2 years but he co-owned a restaurant when he was 21. We met at age 24, he was a waiter at Sofitel for $700-1000pw. He tried Architecture, but went on with a bachelor in media. He's travelled half of Asia and Europe. He beats me sometimes on the history of France.

Let me repeat: The guy was born in the countryside in Thailand and he's currently making it in Syndey, where land prices go through the roof because it's a sunny place with beaches, low pollution, excellent schools, the second best development index IN THE WORLD according to UN (after Norway), and more freedom than in US. And he'll graduate at the end of the semester. He's done much better than my colleagues in my developed country.

But he's little people. A waiter. For people who can't see through.

You don't need hard work to be surrounded by respectable people. Just reverse the problem. You need to find the people around you who are respectable, and to do that you need to listen to their story.

And finding respect in simple things is really good for work hours and happiness.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#103

Post by Aeolos »

jrcii wrote: post #62
burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

>This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way It's truly sad that the culture of people in computing reading this forum, which reflects the nation and west as a whole, is so disconnected from God that you feel the need to disclaim the profession of morality or religion.

> It's truly sad

No, actually it's one of the few truly hopeful and uplifting things. Why would that be sad?

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#104

Post by erikb »

I like the explanation, but I don't like the idea of telling everybody that things where different in the past. When most people were farmers they also worked more than 12 hours a day, since you need to take care of such a big place. When most people were factory workers people also worked more than 12 hours because the boss thought it would make him more money if you worked more (and with simple, mechanical work that's actually true). The kind of work changed, as well as the reason. But we always worked too much.

And there is one reason he didn't mention: When you don't work so much, you need to figure out what to do with your time. You can't watch movies all day. Nobody can do that for a long time. So you need to think hard about other reasonable things to do. And thinking is painful and scary.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#105

Post by jasonkester »

BadassFractal wrote: post #69
buf wrote: post #7

I moved to SF in 2008 as a poor college grad. Since then, I've spent all of my time in startups. It's an unhealthy addiction and it's going to kill me. I was the third engineer at Eventbrite, and I spent years working many extra hours. After 4 years, it felt like I worked 10 years. I quit and moved to Europe to try to leave the startup scene, but a month later, I found myself the CTO of a startup in London. The addic…

Similar story here, been doing the crazy startup founder hours for half a decade now, haven't really lived much outside of the office in that time. Feeling also trapped: if I drop out, then I'm somewhat giving up on all of the people who over the years I had to convince to join me in a vision that I'm becoming tired of. It'd very likely lead to the collapse of a source of fulfillment, purpose and income for many peop…

What's something someone with a strong entrepreneurial, technical and managerial background can do for maybe 20 hours a week?

Exactly what you're doing now. But only 20 hours a week of it.

You can spend today having the talks you need to have to make this happen, then start your first sane work week tomorrow.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#106

Post by lemming »

xirdstl wrote: post #47
gyardley wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it could happen - there's nothing inherent that keeps you from downshifting and enjoying your life more. Even if you're truly addicted to work, addictions can be beaten. I have to admit I find articles like this completely perplexing. As soon as I achieved a little bit of professional success, I dropped full-time work like a hot rock, and I don't miss it at all.

What do you do now? Part time contracting? I'm at a place where I don't really need to work full time either, but I haven't figured out a plan for getting out of it.

Not the GP, but I took a bunch of time off work, traveled with my wife for a while and then hacked on fun things until I found one I could make into a product. I'm now living off a bootstrapped product, and I couldn't be happier.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#108

Post by oldmanjay »

henrikschroder wrote: post #59
ambicapter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Then again, I'm not where I want to be. Looking at all the workaholics in this thread I'm simultaneously intrigued and weirded out.

I'm also weirded out. Who wants to work? How can you not have as a life goal to not work? It sucks for the most part! As for Marx and Keynes and others, thinking about what people will do if they're freed of labour, have you SEEN youtube? People are not lacking ideas on things to do, quite the opposite!

Telling people that living as they wish "sucks" doesn't make you right about them, it makes you a bigot.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#109

Post by throweway »

laxatives wrote: post #19
buf wrote: post #7

I moved to SF in 2008 as a poor college grad. Since then, I've spent all of my time in startups. It's an unhealthy addiction and it's going to kill me. I was the third engineer at Eventbrite, and I spent years working many extra hours. After 4 years, it felt like I worked 10 years. I quit and moved to Europe to try to leave the startup scene, but a month later, I found myself the CTO of a startup in London. The addic…

The way I see it, this is great. Start up success means you get to live a lifetime of working in X many years instead of Y like everyone outside of tech, where Y >> X. You have the freedom to direct that energy towards family, yourself, and charity when you want to call it quits. Most people don't get that luxury. You also have the freedom to look back at a short, but intense career of (hopefully) successful products…

Id bet E(X) >> E(Y) though.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#110

Post by jasonkester »

buf wrote: post #7

I moved to SF in 2008 as a poor college grad. Since then, I've spent all of my time in startups. It's an unhealthy addiction and it's going to kill me. I was the third engineer at Eventbrite, and I spent years working many extra hours. After 4 years, it felt like I worked 10 years. I quit and moved to Europe to try to leave the startup scene, but a month later, I found myself the CTO of a startup in London. The addic…

There's a term for this called "revealed preferences." If you keep saying "I wish I could work sane hours" but actually keep making decisions to work insane hours, chances are you actually really just want to work insane hours.

I spent a lot of time being confused by this, listening to perfectly healthy young people with good paying jobs and no attachments telling me "I wish I could just drop everything and go traveling for months on end like you do" and then just sort of trailing off. "But You Can!!!" I always wanted to shout back. You just don't actually want to do that. Or you would. What that person really wanted was what they had: a stable comfortable job and a nice car and apartment, practicing for the day when they had a wife, kids, lease & mortgage to solidify that reality of "can't go traveling". Sounds pretty comfy, actually. If only they could come to grips with what they wanted and be happy with it.

It might be worth stepping back and looking at what you actually want. You just might find it's what you already have.

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