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Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

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Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#101

Post by NeutronBoy »

kuschku wrote: post #61
Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

Nuclear Fission? Safe? As long as for-profit companies are running the reactors, they’ll end up saving everywhere, and, like we’ve seen before and before, it ends up in meltdowns (for example, due to refusing to maintain the emergency generators properly, see fukushima). Any way you try to handle this issue, someone will abuse it. Make it a governmentally funded operation, people will end up corrupt and use money for…

> As long as for-profit companies are running the reactors, they’ll end up saving everywhere

Right, because government never cheaps out on massive infrastructure projects...

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#102

Post by specialist »

eru wrote: post #91
Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

The book `Just get out of the way' ( http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=51... ) addresses this topic. One point the author makes is that honest and competent government officials are one of the most scarce and valuable resources for a developing country, and thus institutions and laws should be designed to lighten their workload. One example are insolvency laws. In most countries, there are thr…

Good link, thanks.

Hernando de Soto makes a similar case that societies need some cultural achievements unlocked before their market-based economies can work well. Stuff like property rights, fair and impartial courts, contract law, enforced regulatory authority, professional civil servants, etc.

The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else

Hernando de Soto (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Everywh...

I have friends that work in development who criticize de Soto: a good start, but as one would expect, the story isn't that simple. Alas, I don't recall their upgrades to de Soto's insights.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#103

Post by neolefty »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

Moral change is so hard that people assume it's impossible. But if you can tackle it, it makes so many things easier or at least possible.

It's at the heart of the Baha'i approach, which has development as its goal, but starts by training young people in honesty & altruism and developing a community oriented around local service (it aims at adults too, but they're harder to reach unless they are already basically on board). It's a little weird to talk about on a technical forum, since the approach assumes a spiritual view of human nature -- the unifying power of prayer, we have a higher conscience, etc, but I think it's true, and I find it to be systematic and evidence-based.

I think people love being trustworthy, but they tend to develop cynicism about it. They want to be part of a trustworthy society, but they haven't seen it work yet. That makes me think it's possible to grow a society where honesty & justice are the norms, even embedded within a society that is corrupt & cynical, if a small critical mass of people support & encourage each other. They'll attract positive attention and grow, in part because of contrast, if the desire is there among the general population.

It's is a slow process though, and I often feel discouraged because it's the kind of thing that requires generational change, and which I doubt I'll see finished in my lifetime. But when I stop and think about what else I'd work on, I can't think of anything more solid in the long term.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#105

Post by jdminhbg »

kuschku wrote: post #61
Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

Nuclear Fission? Safe? As long as for-profit companies are running the reactors, they’ll end up saving everywhere, and, like we’ve seen before and before, it ends up in meltdowns (for example, due to refusing to maintain the emergency generators properly, see fukushima). Any way you try to handle this issue, someone will abuse it. Make it a governmentally funded operation, people will end up corrupt and use money for…

> As long as for-profit companies are running the reactors, they’ll end up saving everywhere, and, like we’ve seen before and before, it ends up in meltdowns (for example, due to refusing to maintain the emergency generators properly, see fukushima)

And don't even get me started on the rapacious capitalists running Chernobyl...

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#106

Post by eru »

specialist wrote: post #102
eru wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book `Just get out of the way' ( http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=51... ) addresses this topic. One point the author makes is that honest and competent government officials are one of the most scarce and valuable resources for a developing country, and thus institutions and laws should be designed to lighten their workload. One example are insolvency laws. In most countries, there are thr…

Good link, thanks. Hernando de Soto makes a similar case that societies need some cultural achievements unlocked before their market-based economies can work well. Stuff like property rights, fair and impartial courts, contract law, enforced regulatory authority, professional civil servants, etc. The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else Hernando de Soto (Author) http://www…

Exactly.

The thesis of the book I mentioned is exactly that you should very carefully economize on the amount of `cultural capital' required to run your economy. A mostly market-based economy is one way to do that, if regulation is chosen carefully.

Societies that have lots of cultural capital, like the Nordic countries, can get away with more socialism without everything becoming corrupt. (It might still be inefficient for them to go that route, but at least they can bear the costs.)

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#107

Post by alexashka »

prawn wrote: post #96
alexashka wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passive aggressive rhetorical questions huh... On forums and in real life, it is best to avoid inviting a punch to the face. You must have grown up without getting hurt, like Bill and Melinda Gates :) See how perhaps it is you missing my point but thinking I am missing theirs? Now one way to settle this is for you to tell me what you think their point and intent is, that way we can move past me explaining your privil…

I gave you a rhetorical question assuming that it might help you re-read both the link and your comment to see why you were being downvoted. If you read what they wrote and instead raise obese Americans, I'm not sure how I can encourage you to see the point. For one thing, Melinda was talking a lot about technology and even just proximity to clean water as being a huge opportunity for people in Africa to save time an…

Please skim this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

The way it relates to you is you think I'm wrong, see that 2 more people think so too, and make an arrogant remark that questions my reading comprehension. Many people thinking the same thing does not make it so.

Melinda was not talking about technology a lot - please re-read what she wrote.

Furthermore, even if she did focus on technology (it was actually Bill who did) - technology is not the solution to human happiness, as is shown by the obesity statistics in the USA.

Does that clear it up? If the goal of humanity is human happiness, technology has failed in the USA - the answer lies elsewhere clearly.

I don't see that elsewhere, whatever they think it may be, addressed anywhere. Melinda addresses feminist notions - is that going to fix obesity and the myriad of problems USA citizens face? I don't think so.

So where is the answer?

You'll say 'they're focusing on something else right now', to which I'll say before you go and mess with another country's infrastructure and economy by introducing foreign aid - maybe make sure a third of your own people are not miserable first.

Priorities are important - leaving your own citizens obese with no free health care while helping those half across the world is wrong. Do you see why?

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#108

Post by tuananh »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

improving education,awareness will help reducing corruption too. enable them to fight for themselves.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#109

Post by jacalata »

prawn wrote: post #77
dominotw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its scary how a gatekeeper like PG doesn't even have the basic understanding of poverty.

He used "poverty" instead of "broke". What's the drama?

One is a systemic condition that requires changes from society, the other is a temporary condition caused mostly by factors under your control. Confusing the two encourages ineffective 'solutions' for poverty to be created like 'we just have to make it embarrassing/uncomfortable/illegal to be in that condition'. These rely on motivating the poor person to fix themselves, instead of attempting to fix the surroundings that are the actual cause and address the symptoms that the poor person is unable to fix on their own, and then dismissing the ones that don't bootstrap themselves out as lazy and undeserving.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#110

Post by Cheezmeister »

ant6n wrote: post #92
tryitnow wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there's much that Gates can do about corruption. That's something that might have to take it's natural course and weed itself out (like it has partly done in the US and other developed nations). In the mean time I think Gates wants to do something rather than nothing and things like mosquito nets apparently do save lives. The people whose lives are saved may not be able to prosper, but they're most li…

Corruption in the US seems to be getting worse too. Also other first world countries.

"Seems" is not the same as "is". In the US at least, I see not corruption so much as deeply entrenched dysfunctional incentives.

It's not malice or conspiracy or even stupidity. It's simply the way the US's political, economic, and industrial systems (alternately known as THE MAN) co-evolved.

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