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India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

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Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#101

Post by nileshtrivedi »

dhawalhs wrote: post #96

Couple of articles I would recommend reading about Free Basics 1. Here’s How Free Basics Is Actually Being Sold Around The World http://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/heres-how-free-basi... 2. How India Pierced Facebook’s Free Internet Program https://medium.com/backchannel/how-india-pierced-facebook-s-... For the second article, reporter asked Facebook to put her in touch with Free Basics users. All the people th…

Indeed.

"Free Basics was ostensibly targeted at Indians who had never experienced the Internet or could not pay for data plans. However, Facebook recently struggled to provide a reporter with the name of a single Free Basics user in India who had never been online before."

Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/nitashatiku/india-ruling-trai-free-b...

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#102

Post by nileshtrivedi »

geodel wrote: post #38
scorpion032 wrote: post #2

Probably the most progressive regulation among anywhere in the world. Enforcement of these #NetNeutrality principles is the literal granting of the Liberties and Equalities of opportunities, granted to individuals and as such this is a landmark order that will have far reaching repercussions. Worth noting how this played out. A bunch of folks on the internet, organised themselves and campaigned to stop a $300B market…

It does not look as simple to me. From what I hear it's other VC funded e-commerce companies who were most vocal against FB. Using their foreign investors' money to to heavy discount and simultaneously blocking smaller companies does not seem anything right/decent or progressive.

VC-funded companies actually wanted differential pricing (which allows FreeBasics). Flipkart, for example, signed up as a partner for Airtel Zero.

Among the 700 startups who signed the petition against differential pricing, there are very few big names in startups - because they stand to gain from differential pricing.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#103

Post by vram22 »

anoncow wrote: post #51
cmadan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a step in the right direction. TRAI was only deciding on differential pricing not slow/fast lanes and currently no ISPs are implementing slow/fast lanes whereas differential pricing (i.e. free plans for Facebook, Whatsapp, their own shitty apps etc) were all over.

Definitely a step in the right direction, but there are plenty of ISPs who provide preferential treatment to Google by peering with their servers. YouTube HD videos stream without buffering on 512kbps connections. https://www.quora.com/I-am-from-Mumbai-I-have-an-Internet-co...

What's peering?

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#104

Post by jsudhams »

splintercell wrote: post #93
tmerr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point but I'm not sure how it applies to the argument. If websites are low quality, is that justification for an ISP to block them?

Never said that. Also Net Neutrality regulation isn't the only thing preventing ISPs from blocking all the websites they want willy-nilly. What ISPs want is ability to charge more for priority services (which includes but not limited to 'express lanes'). What NN supporters think this would mean is that ISPs will block websites. Anyone has a right to block any content on their private property. Newspapers can censor a…

The good thing is mangoes are available already cheap. So 200 rupees for 1GB .. and with competition it will go down further

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#105

Post by shubhamjain »

splintercell wrote: post #93
tmerr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point but I'm not sure how it applies to the argument. If websites are low quality, is that justification for an ISP to block them?

Never said that. Also Net Neutrality regulation isn't the only thing preventing ISPs from blocking all the websites they want willy-nilly. What ISPs want is ability to charge more for priority services (which includes but not limited to 'express lanes'). What NN supporters think this would mean is that ISPs will block websites. Anyone has a right to block any content on their private property. Newspapers can censor a…

I read a book called "Economics in One Lesson" [1] which is quite in few ways similar to your arguments. The gist of the book is Government should avoid doing anything in capitalistic market, goes on to argue against Minimum wage Laws, Labour unions, Price control etc. and how a free market will solve every economic problem.

The problem with your arguments / analogies and of that book, is that they tell a simplistic chain of reasoning without considering hundreds of factors involved in the equation. You say that a 'no-blocked sites package' and 'whitelisted site package' could co-exist but fail to see that, the former one could be priced so high (once the latter gains a very large market share) that it becomes necessary for an ordinary person to limit his choices. The barrier to entry for a telecom network or a broadband service is really high and I can't see a better alternative just coming in quickly.

[1]: http://www.hacer.org/pdf/Hazlitt00.pdf

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#106

Post by slaxman »

Vickor wrote: post #99
slaxman wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! This comment is really far away from reality. 1/ There are no studies that show correlation between free basics and increase in internet penetration. In fact, Reliance Telecom, Facebook's free basics partner in India, marketed it was a way to surf facebook & whatsapp for free. 2/ Google is giving away free internet in Railway stations in India. Unlike free basics, it gives access to the complete internet and not…

1. Facebook has provided studies that do indicate increased internet adoption after free basics (real internet adoption, after having been introduced via Fed basics). You're welcome to read the studies and debate their bias, but the studies exist. How the telecoms market is irrelevant to this discussion. Of course they're going to market having access to the most popular websites and apps. Hell, they probably use the…

1/ Telecom marketing is absolutely central to this discussion. It is THE way that free basics in sold on the street. Even the world bank has said free basics breaks net neutrality (http://www.scoopwhoop.com/The-World-Bank-Has-Said-Free-Basic...)

2/ Clearly you haven't the slightest idea of the number of people that travel by trains in India. In Mumbai alone, close to 8Mn people use the train to get to their place of work EVERYDAY. Many of them travel for over 2 hours at a time (over 4 hours in total). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Suburban_Railway)

3/ You have no idea how rich/poor the ones fighting for net neutrality are. You shouldn't be making such statements. It reflects badly on you. The fact is that a bunch of few activists with no financial backing were able to put an end to intense lobbying by multi-billion dollar telecom and media companies.

This is exactly what you expect from a good regulator. I am extremely happy with TRAI. They saved my bootstrapped education startup.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#107

Post by ascorbic »

jiraaya wrote: post #100
ascorbic wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not CNN. That's an "iReport", which anyone can post. This one was posted by an anti-vaxxer called "VaccineThis". Zero credibility. http://ireport.cnn.com/people/VaccineThis

Ah. My bad. It says "Not verified by CNN" clearly on the side pane and within the image. I just jumped straight to the main content. I agree with you that the post does not have much in the way of credibility. Thank you for pointing out and apologies for wasting your time.

No problem. The iReport thing is perfect for polemicists and conspiracy theorists, as it means they can post something and say "look, it's on CNN" and many people will miss the disclaimer. If anything is about vaccines I always check sources very carefully, as there is so much misinformation out there.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#108

Post by toyg »

icebraining wrote: post #65
shubhamjain wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what bothers me about this movement: it should be about giving poor people free access to the Net (which would just render Facebook's toy platform irrelevant - no need to ban it). Give access to the whole Internet and not just few specific sites which a megacorp has full control over. The whole argument of something-is-better-than-nothing sounds so much like 18th century colonists. I just don't get why shoul…

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I don't see how it addresses my point.

The point is that Free Basics existing would automatically remove a huge amount of incentive for other solutions appearing. Why bother building a better internet if FB already provides "the essentials" to everyone? It would wipe the market before it had a chance to develop organically as it happened elsewhere. If AOL had provided free access to its own services only we would have a very different network today.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#109

Post by conceit »

ikeboy wrote: post #88
conceit wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it stands, the state, universities and other providers might have sponsored a lot of the infrastructure, while fb is just using it, so if they want their own, they should build it and only offer fb. for free.

If the state thinks it's a bad idea, they can not offer their own infrastructure to FB. That's not what happened. They decreed that nobody, even those who agree with FB, can rent their infrastructure to FB. That's the problem.

The state cannot not offer it's infrastructure to the private providers that are connected to the internet,

As you say, It's a problem, alright, but not actually mine, so I wont go anymore into this.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#110

Post by rajeshba »

Sven7 wrote: post #68

This has been like watching one form of misinformation battling another form of misinformation. One set of misguided people battling another set of misguided people. NetNeutrality is a concept that makes sense in a western context where carriers are basically monopolies. It's unbelievable how good arguments in one context, have been blindly applied to a completely unrelated context. Activists in the West (who's rep a…

Having stayed in both the US and India for significant part of my adult life, I feel qualified enough to understand both perspectives: 1. Does FreeBasics help poor people? May be it does in the short term but the long term consequences are irreversible. This is like losing forest for the trees. 2. Subsidies of various kinds have been around since Independent India and to be true, they are what have held back. To understand this further, you need to know why food subsidy bill and other rural employment schemes have failed to achieve any sort of desirable benefit and led to rout of the oldest political party. One has to agree that these subsidies are the true form of "free basics" (pun intended) someone needs to survive.

For the first time in years, India has true opportunity to break out of shackles and become a developed country. I have seen the optimism in younger lot and how entrepreneurs of all kinds are solving India specific problems. This is despite the rigid regulations which are being eased as we speak. The future only looks bright.

Peace, Rajesh

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