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Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

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Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#101

Post by ashark »

sandworm101 wrote: post #85
jt2190 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much of [the pledged > 4,000,000,000 USD] will go > to good teacher and interesting programs? It looks like about 1,000,000 USD will go directly to educators. [1] [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/01/30/computer-science-...

I don't even see that single million going to teachers. At most, I see lots of money for "training" teachers, but that isn't money in their hands. That's filing PD days, not hiring teachers with CS backgrounds to actually inspire kids.

Some consultants are going to make a ton of money selling some stupid "solution" backed by a couple anecdotes, a mediocre book, and a single never-reproduced study, though. Then administrators will only implement the parts of the program that don't make them uncomfortable (maybe half of it) and in two years they'll be scratching their heads wondering why it didn't work like the stories in the book.

And it'll probably add another 15 minutes of paperwork to every teacher's day, somehow.

Just like any other time a bunch of money is thrown at teacher training and curriculum.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#102

Post by thesimon »

cms07 wrote: post #51

I can't wait for the labor surplus to drive down my wages.

At my High School, everyone had to take a Computer Science class for at least 1 year.

My year had 60 students and I'm the only one studying CS/working in the industry. I'm pretty sure your, mine and everyone's wage will be alright.

Yes, only an anecdote, but it's not like everyone is switching from their dreams to become a doctor/lawyer/pilot/xyz to a CS job just because they had a HS class.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#103

Post by bane »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #75
bane wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as this doesn't translate into a grant that confuses CS with Programming I'm all for it. Students already have to learn mathematics. Learning about computation is just as important these days.

>Learning about computation is just as important these days. Why?

I think analog31's answer gets to the gist of it for me. Lots of kids have a very hard time understanding how math is relevant to them beyond basic arithmetic and a little algebra. However, it's important enough that we dedicate all of k-12 to teaching it.

Yet, computation is basically what runs the world and there's immediate and gratifying application for even very simple and low levels of it. Students learning about computation...and what's computable...can relate to it much more readily and can start looking for applications of this knowledge much more readily than what they learn in mathematics.

But the two subjects are married at the hip (like literature and history) and one can readily lead into another if they're both present.

Just as important, the tools that exist for exploring computation are really quite good these days and students can do some really cool stuff if the environment is well structured. Imagine sitting down in a class and the assignment is to use Python to build a simple sentiment analyzer. Classroom materials are a list of scored sentiment words and a few dozen excerpts from literature or news.

Or reinforce mathematics lectures on probability by building a bloom filter.

K-12 education on computation, if done well, could help tie together many of the other subjects that students are taught and provide immediate application.

(imagine if the assignment for a 10th grade art class was to produce a demoscene demo!)

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#105

Post by awakeasleep »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #98

Do we really want to "reduce such a beautiful and meaningful art form to something so mindless and trivial[?]; no culture could be so cruel to its children as to deprive them of such a natural,satisfying means of human expression. How absurd!" - Lockhart [1]. He was talking about math, but I am sure the same results would occur with computer science "education" if done in high schools. "One of the best ways to stifle…

"Now class, boot up visual studio. Today we'll be continuing our lesson on the Abstract Factory pattern."

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#106

Post by dikaiosune »

sandworm101 wrote: post #85
jt2190 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much of [the pledged > 4,000,000,000 USD] will go > to good teacher and interesting programs? It looks like about 1,000,000 USD will go directly to educators. [1] [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/01/30/computer-science-...

I don't even see that single million going to teachers. At most, I see lots of money for "training" teachers, but that isn't money in their hands. That's filing PD days, not hiring teachers with CS backgrounds to actually inspire kids.

I'm sure many teachers would appreciate a few paid summer days they wouldn't have had before. I agree that it's a woefully tiny amount from the entire initiative, but teacher training can still be a good thing for teachers and for kids.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#107

Post by cdcarter »

noir_lord wrote: post #65
brighteyes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they don't, in a way, but are you sure they still don't benefit from it, even if they find it hard and even if they only reach a pre-calculus level?

I think the primary benefit of teaching everyone comp-sci is to expose people to it who would have loved but may not have had the oppurtunity. I've got a couple of friends my age (35) who got into programming in the last few years and absolutely love it, they didn't get into it when they where younger because they didn't have access to the machines (mostly a matter of your background, even the "cheap" home computers…

> I think the primary benefit of teaching everyone comp-sci is to expose people to it who would have loved but may not have had the oppurtunity.

Honestly, I think the primary benefit of teaching everyone comp-sci is so that when they have to experience complicated systems, they have a great set of mental tools with which to model them. Same benefit from learning basic logic in school maths.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#109

Post by liquidchicken »

hasenj wrote: post #54
throwaway420 wrote: post #6

People are intelligent in many different ways and I don't believe that most people have the abstract thinking skills necessary to really thrive in computer science. Forcing everybody to take part in computer science education is probably going to frustrate the hell out of most people (make them feel stupid and annoyed at having to do this stuff) and dumb down the curriculum for the small percentage of kids who would…

I pretty much agree with this sentiment. The way Math is taught in school made me hate it. It's just like you said. Math frustrates the hell out of most people, and probably makes them feels stupid. The education system in North America is just not ready for this.

I feel like what we should be working towards is an integrated "problem-solving"-based curriculum. The test-based stuff has us stuck in "memorize these things" mode.

For most kids, math is way more interesting if you can move past generic formulas and into real-world use cases. I remember continually asking math teachers "And what would I use this for?" and never getting an answer which left me super-frustrated and uninterested.

Instead of breaking them out into different "tracks", integrating math, logic, and CompSci into existing courses might produce some interesting results.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#110

Post by uglysexy »

sandworm101 wrote: post #69

How much of this will go to good teachers and interesting programs? And how much will simply be spent on overpriced machines (microsoft) and proprietary "connected classroom" concepts (apple)? You don't need much equipment to teach CS. Basic machines will do. And there is no need to spend any money on software these days (f/oss). I worry that this money is less an educational initiative and more a handout to those co…

Exactly - handouts. Just like Obamacare (Healthcare.gov). Wouldn't be surprised if it goes to Michele Obama's crony connections or to donors to his 2012 campaign.

I do think it is a worthwhile & noble cause to help low income communities with higher education and/or training to help get well paying jobs.

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