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The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

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Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#101

Post by yawboakye »

m52go wrote: post #74
elchief wrote: post #48

"Project Foo: The Greatest Thing Ever". What is that? I should look into that. A year or two later. "Project Foo: Total Crap". Glad I didn't look into that.

Meteor is different. It's been over 4 years. It's not going anywhere. It has more stars on GitHub than Rails. If you haven't looked into it, and you're in a remotely adjacent field, you're behind. Even if you don't decide to use it. The ideas underpinning the framework are very progressive and sure to continue in some form even if Meteor itself ultimately doesn't. With all that said, I think Meteor is simply going th…

> It has more stars on GitHub than Rails.

Nope. Nope. GitHub stars was never a good reason to choose a framework. How about we compare real businesses out there?

Airbnb, Square, Twitter, GitHub, Basecamp, etc for Rails. What's there for Meteor?

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#102

Post by thoughtpalette »

popmystack wrote: post #98
ccallebs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you see negativity? The same place you saw the negativity, which is why you prefaced the sentence with "I'm sorry." One should not assume someone's technical prowess based on one poor decision (a decision they've recognized as suboptimal). Also, they still shipped.

That's a ridiculous statement. "I'm sorry" is not an indication of negativity. Nor is it indicative of my posting history. Apparently criticism is simply not allowed. Sorry to poke the fluff that is somehow being perceived as value. You most definitely can judge someone's technical prowess as well based on their decisions. I am not sure how you're going to grey-wash this into some kind of innocent mistake. The decisi…

Apology accepted.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#103

Post by pm24601 »

We used meteor at my last company. By far and away the biggest issue was being stuck with Mongo. NoSQL databases have their place. But they are not a universal solution to everything (or even most things).

Relational DBs exist for a reason.

Being stuck with Mongo is the major reason why I wouldn't use meteor again.

The other stuff was minor and had solutions. We also built an open source library that wrapped up collections well.

https://atmospherejs.com/patmoore/meteor-collection-manageme...

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#104

Post by pm24601 »

tbrock wrote: post #72

> Once a new Meteor user starts to go beyond the basics and look into things like routing, pagination, subscription caching & management, server-side rendering, or database joins, they realize that the difficulty curve quickly ramps up. Routing? Really? I am not an expert but I think if routing, of all things, is hard in to do in your web framework, you most likely have a problem. That's requirement zero!

Its not even true either because there is the iron-router package. Yes it is not "core" meteor but it is a very popular package.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#105

Post by doyoulikeworms »

popmystack wrote: post #85
wreford wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry... Literally your entire posting history is negative without adding any value. Why is that? I personally enjoy seeing people voice their mistakes in a honest way so the rest of us can learn. Edit *your

Where do you see negativity? How is his comment adding any value? "We chose a stack we didn't fully understand after trying it for less than a week and it turns out we didn't know everything about it!" Also it's "your", not "you're."

How do you suppose those "timeless principles of software development" were born? People sharing only their success stories?

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#106

Post by m52go »

yawboakye wrote: post #101
m52go wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meteor is different. It's been over 4 years. It's not going anywhere. It has more stars on GitHub than Rails. If you haven't looked into it, and you're in a remotely adjacent field, you're behind. Even if you don't decide to use it. The ideas underpinning the framework are very progressive and sure to continue in some form even if Meteor itself ultimately doesn't. With all that said, I think Meteor is simply going th…

> It has more stars on GitHub than Rails. Nope. Nope. GitHub stars was never a good reason to choose a framework. How about we compare real businesses out there? Airbnb, Square, Twitter, GitHub, Basecamp, etc for Rails. What's there for Meteor?

I'm not saying the # of GitHub stars is a good reason to choose a framework.

But it is an indicator of it being something more than not-just-another-stupid-shiny framework that cannot be immediately dismissed.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#108

Post by mrcwinn »

magicmu wrote: post #23

The startup I'm with right now just finished a meteor/react project that I led. This article really touched on our major pain-point with the learning cliff that you hit after a certain point. We used FlowRouter since it has React support, but managing subscriptions correctly (let alone caching them) took way more time than we had anticipated. It wasn't until near the end of the project that we realized none of us act…

It's good to realize the mistake here, so good job. Never jump on the new thing. Always lean toward the simple thing. Always prefer tools closer to your core competencies. Meteor is really fun to play with and the community is very good, but Meteor creates complexity over time.

It's also worth mentioning that unless you have a real-time app whose data model fits nicely with schema-less document storage, Meteor is almost never the right tool for the job. And even if your project has those requirements, there are plenty of high-quality alternatives to Meteor.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#109

Post by popmystack »

doyoulikeworms wrote: post #105
popmystack wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see negativity? How is his comment adding any value? "We chose a stack we didn't fully understand after trying it for less than a week and it turns out we didn't know everything about it!" Also it's "your", not "you're."

How do you suppose those "timeless principles of software development" were born? People sharing only their success stories?

Not only was it not much of a story, in fact it's so generic that can be applied to almost any field, but I never said he shouldn't have shared it. I asked how he was a lead on a project, when it's kind of clear that he probably shouldn't have been. I'd also be inclined to ask how is CTO is, well, a CTO.

It's a really rather silly situation -- but as far as startups go it seems par for the course. It's quite irritating.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#110

Post by webjprgm »

m52go wrote: post #74
elchief wrote: post #48

"Project Foo: The Greatest Thing Ever". What is that? I should look into that. A year or two later. "Project Foo: Total Crap". Glad I didn't look into that.

Meteor is different. It's been over 4 years. It's not going anywhere. It has more stars on GitHub than Rails. If you haven't looked into it, and you're in a remotely adjacent field, you're behind. Even if you don't decide to use it. The ideas underpinning the framework are very progressive and sure to continue in some form even if Meteor itself ultimately doesn't. With all that said, I think Meteor is simply going th…

There are too many JS frameworks/platforms/libraries to keep up with. I can't spend my time investigating them all. I've heard of Meteor several times but in my mind it was associated with (a) real-time apps, and (b) not free. I'm guessing that was because it is the free alternative to a paid thing? Anyway, that's what stuck in my head so I've ignored this one.

Is looking at GitHub stars a recommended way to find the best frameworks? Or what would you suggest for that?

I recently started looking at Nodal since it was mentioned here on HN a couple weeks ago. It looks pretty cool at first glance but I haven't tried building anything with it yet. (I don't have infinite time.)

I remember when there was Prototype.js vs jQuery vs Yahoo's library vs MooTools vs fill-in-the-blank. I only switched to jQuery when virtually everyone else had. Until then I stuck with Prototype because its the one I already knew (because I tried it first), even though I had played with jQuery a little bit.

So, again I say there are just too many frameworks to keep up with. (And ask if anyone has a good site / method for dealing with this.)

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