101–110 of 159 posts
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This is a weird answer to the question, especially since Rust very probably has whatever "modern C++ techniques" you were thinking of.
Rust lacks higher kind types which C++ has had in the form of template templates since 1998. Rust also lacks the equivalent of variadic templates. If you want to see where that is different take a look at generic tuple manipulation in C++11 vs Rust.
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Junior level is when you know all language features Wow, in that case I don't think I've ever worked with anybody who's ever managed to reach "junior level" in any language. What do you call someone with, for example, just a PhD in the relevant field, 6 or 7 years of professional programming experience and several successfully shipped products under his belt. And what do you call the guy that is obviously his junior?
When someone with a PhD in the relevant field, 6 or 7 years of professional programming experience and several successfully shipped products under his belt starts learning something new, he's a junior at that new thing.
I want to spend at least 3-4 months learning a new language but just can't figure out if I should spent time learning Rust or Go. I am thinking more of it from a career perspective than interest.
What languages do you know currently? This will probably be an unpopular opinion but unless you know more than you can count on two hands, it's unlikely that Rust or Go will be give you the best ROI if your focus is career enhancement. The largest career ROI is probably in getting to advanced-intermediate level in a couple of the following (in absolutely no order, I intentionally put ones I don't know first): - Pytho…
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I'd really like to know how well that works out at Dropbox. How honest and public do you think they'd be if major data losses resulted from Rust crapping out on them? I'm not sure about them but lots of businesses keep such things on the DL. I think it's a risky move. I'd have first deployed existing, native code along with Rust in parallel using the data splitting technique so some is saved with original and some wi…
The project lead already said on Reddit that if Dropbox loses data, it's now Rust's fault, so... :) The project was a whole team of engineers working for almost a year, with extensive testing. At least, that's what I've heard. So like, I think they did exactly what you said, it's just that it's ready by now.
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You must say the same thing about COBOL in other threads. Demand for it remains high with people getting paid a premium in some areas for the shortage. Something like a billion lines of it out there. Microfocus is probably hiring, too. So, anyone following your argument should skip C++ and learn COBOL because COBOL is easier to learn, in widespread use, and has jobs available.
Interesting point. I was curious about this, and turned to Wikipedia: >In 2006 and 2012, Computerworld surveys found that over 60% of organizations used COBOL (more than C++ and Visual Basic .NET) and that for half of those, COBOL was used for the majority of their internal software. 36% of managers said they planned to migrate from COBOL, and 25% said they would like to if it was cheaper. Instead, some businesses ha…
Main vendor even has it on Visual Studio: http://www.microfocus.com/solutions/cobol/index.aspx
The job is boring, predictable, and 9-5-ish at most places. Exactly what some types of people are looking for. They figure they can play with the fun stuff at home. One person even jokingly made a web framework for it: COBOL on Cogs. So, yeah, I throw COBOL at anyone using the "use language X for users or jobs" argument to see how they react to what they're actually arguing.
Interesting that you at least looked it up and didn't go into denial mode. I'm impressed. ;)
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What languages do you know currently? This will probably be an unpopular opinion but unless you know more than you can count on two hands, it's unlikely that Rust or Go will be give you the best ROI if your focus is career enhancement. The largest career ROI is probably in getting to advanced-intermediate level in a couple of the following (in absolutely no order, I intentionally put ones I don't know first): - Pytho…
You forgot to include JavaScript. I don't think that one should be excluded at this point.
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> it remains the language where so many jobs are "The" language where so many jobs are? It's one of many. > As for whether C++ has any techniques to teach that Rust does not, C++ is definitely a unique experience to go through and certainly gives a developer more insight into the actual machine they are working on in a way that few languages do. Can you name, specifically, a way in which C++ gives you "more insight i…
I think that Rust simplifies some things that you must do yourself in C++, and learning how to do them is valuable. At the very least, it will help you appreciate other languages, but it can also show you areas where you get manual control over performance in ways no other language offers. And, perhaps most significantly, there are a wealth of C++ libraries out there that have no equivalent in other languages, and be…
Given that you didn't answer the question, I think it's pretty clear at this point that you haven't used Rust. Rust is a low-level language with low-level control over memory and resources.
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I actually think you'd go far to spend 3 - 4 months learning C++. Almost every language you can likely encounter in your career will use some feature that will get introduced to you in C++, especially modern C++, and, almost any language will be easier to learn and use after first going through a C++ learning curve. Besides, C++ is still the big player, more than all others. Even Apple's new language Swift is written…
I think that is a great answer. I actually see some parallels between the relationship of Rust/C++ to Scala/Java. Both basically use the backend of the established language and provide an 'improved' language on top of it. Scala uses the JVM, and Rust uses LLVM. What is interesting is that with the release of Java 8, a lot of Scala early adopters and cutting back their investment in Scala in favor of Java (for example…
I have a lot of questions about this tool, both in terms of soundness/expressivity (how do you deal with shared_ptr and similar things if your goal is to statically guarantee no-alias on function entry) and in terms of practicality (the massive subsetting it requires basically makes ISO Core C++ an entirely new language).
Also, Herb's claims about the ISO Core C++ lifetime profile requiring fewer annotations than Rust were incorrect.
I gave basically this exact answer last time you posted a variant of this same comment on the last Rust thread.
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> you can see C++ adopting pretty much the borrow checker as a tool This may be because I'm too close to it, but the Core Guidelines are similar in ways, but also very different. Preventing data races is an explicit non-goal, for example, whereas in some ways, it's the focus of the borrow checker. > Rust has no major production deployments of which I am aware Dropbox is the latest production user, as of last month. A…
I'd really like to know how well that works out at Dropbox. How honest and public do you think they'd be if major data losses resulted from Rust crapping out on them? I'm not sure about them but lots of businesses keep such things on the DL. I think it's a risky move. I'd have first deployed existing, native code along with Rust in parallel using the data splitting technique so some is saved with original and some wi…
> It's just... wow, that's pretty mission critical for what I gather is still a beta-phase tool.
I think this is very '90s thinking. Extreme "if it's not C++, you can't deploy it!" conservatism about programming languages hasn't been true for well over a decade. Paul Graham has written some nice essays about this very phenomenon.
Also, Rust is not "a beta-phase tool".
New languages are much easier to deploy since the PL Renaissance. There are a few holdout industries that still stick with C++ no matter what, such as games, but they'll come around eventually. :)
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Speaking as someone who has used both languages, I think you should learn both if you can. Rust will give you experience with low level systems programming (memory management, parallelism, etc.) Go will give you experience with network-facing backend code. Both languages will teach you concurrency. Go is significantly more popular than Rust. But if what you want to learn is a popular language, you shouldn't be lookin…
Perhaps a nice project to learn both is to write a (simple) Go compiler in Rust :) In the same spirit as https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_... Go is not a very complicated language. The main difficulty of writing a Go compiler would be to write the garbage collector, but you can easily skip that part by not collecting any garbage :)