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Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

money.cnn.com

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Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#101

Post by odonnellryan »

kamaal wrote: post #86
odonnellryan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few friends went to a state school in NJ and lived at home - literally could not get cheaper than this situation for us - and they ended up with between 20 and 40 thousand of student loans. Yes, they did work part time. But 100-200 a week from a part time job doesn't go far. That's gas and lunch. They certainly got some aid other than loans, but I do not know the level of scholarships they received. Might have been t…

>>and they ended up with between 20 and 40 thousand of student loans. Doesn't seem much, if you continue the same student life style after getting a job, that kind of debt can be seen through in 1.5-2 years. After that every thing you earn is yours.

I don't think it is that bad. They got decent jobs.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#102

Post by TrevorJ »

dragonwriter wrote: post #88
TrevorJ wrote: post #32

If you co-sign a loan it's not your son's debt, it's your debt.

> If you co-sign a loan it's not your son's debt, it's your debt. Actually, if you co -sign, its both, and primarily the son's.

My point is, one of personal responsibility. You are agreeing that if the need arises you are willing to be 'on the hook' for the money owed. It isn't their son's debt that is keeping them from retiring, it is the choice that they made to co-sign the loan.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#103

Post by _pp9c »

monroepe wrote: post #2

A Bachelor's degree doesn't really do that much for you these days. It's become like a high school diploma was 30 years ago (which almost no one paid for). I keep trying to advocate that people not go so far in debt for a college degree. For med school or law school (although I would argue that this is not a great investment with the current glut of law school grads) it makes sense to go into debt of that size. But I…

If you want to have a research career, you pretty much have to go to a top ten school (or better). Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone...

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#104

Post by wycx »

_pp9c wrote: post #103
monroepe wrote: post #2

A Bachelor's degree doesn't really do that much for you these days. It's become like a high school diploma was 30 years ago (which almost no one paid for). I keep trying to advocate that people not go so far in debt for a college degree. For med school or law school (although I would argue that this is not a great investment with the current glut of law school grads) it makes sense to go into debt of that size. But I…

If you want to have a research career, you pretty much have to go to a top ten school (or better). Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone...

I am not so sure. Do well as an undergrad, and then go and get a PhD at (1) a place with a respected name, (should have good quality staff and resources by default) or (2) someone at a lesser school, but is well respected in the discipline. I struggle to think of anyone I know that did not get a scholarship to fund their PhD. i.e. if you have to pay for it, perhaps you are doing it wrong...

I don't think where you did undergrad makes a whole lot of difference, if you are talented and motivated to pursue research. Where you go as an undergrad will dictate how much research you are exposed to during your degree however.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#105

Post by jld89 »

Just go for a few years and get your degree in europe. Education in most countries is almost free of charge (between 100€ and 500€ a year)

So you can get a degree for 7k€ (if you live relatively well if you are thrifty it will be less than that. this without working part time, this includes living expenses) per year. So in total 21k€ max. That is 23k USD(Jan, 2016 rate). That is what you would pay in 1 year in a low level college in the US, without the living expenses! (All this even if you are a foreigner)

Why pay that when you can study in the Sorbonne or in the Freie Universität Berlin? There are even degrees in English.

Admittedly one needs to talk the language (french, german) but it is definitely worth it. Not to talk about the experience you get for the money.

PS: This is what I did, currently doing my masters degree in Engineering in France.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#106

Post by joshvm »

intopieces wrote: post #67
replicatorblog wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a source that shows a correlation between ice cream sales and homicides: ( http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/07/09/warm_weather_hom... ). I'm sure if we unpacked the BLS data you cite we'd also see a correlation between higher earners coming from intact families and the possession of other forms of social capital in addition to a degree. The question is which is the dominant driver? As for the citations yo…

>Because we treat it like a rite of passage for young adults, and subsidize it heavily, you have horrible colleges offering degrees at the same price as elite schools. It's not the rite of passage that raises the cost, but the cheap student loans that incentivize colleges to raise the price of tuition and hire middle-level administrators. This says nothing of the 'value' of education, only the 'cost.' I'm with you th…

The stat you linked to is misleading.

40% of Americans aged between 25-64 covers anyone who graduated in the last forty years. You should look at recent graduates to remove any bias from older generations who may have been educated before the 'rite of passage' idea became popular.

On the other hand, the actual figure is around 35% for 25-29 year olds so it's not far off. It goes up to 45% if you include associate degrees. While that doesn't seem like much, it's more than 1 in 3 and 25 years ago it was 1 in 4. For a qualification that was once an elite bit of paper, that's a lot of people. It's also showing no sign of decreasing, increased costs or not.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_caa.asp

> But please stop advocating for the wholesale elimination of the most accessible path to success for millions of low and middle-income Americans who are not exceptional.

Is there a citation for that? Median wages, over time, have not improved in line with a more educated populous. More people getting degrees has not translated into a more wealthy population.

Note that in the UK at least, some of the larger firms have stopped asking for degrees and simply require you to pass in-house testing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/e...

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#107

Post by gaius »

theseatoms wrote: post #42
intopieces wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think we need to do more to help educate parents and prospective students that in most cases a college degree is next to worthless. Do you have a source for this? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the exact opposite. [0] >Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. Source? Again and again, people only seem to look at the cost of education like education is a product…

Those who earn bachelor's degrees do indeed earn more than those with only a high school education. But many people are vastly overpaying for this benefit. Not to mention that this is not a controlled experiment. Maybe those who earn degrees would have earned more anyway. (Though I do suspect that college is very beneficial, for the reasons you cite.)

The secret of elite colleges is to admit only those who have a high probability of succeeding even without a degree. Then take credit for their success.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#108

Post by will_brown »

otterley wrote: post #100
will_brown wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discharge through bankruptcy and discharge through the US Dept of Education are different reliefs. In bankruptcy, available statistics show educational loans are discharged, in whole/part, 50% of the time when attempted. My client's loan was discharged through the US Dept of Education. Unlike bankruptcy a lender can't contest, there is no adjudication because the matter does not go to court and a lawyer really isn't…

Does the DoE's ability to discharge student loan debts include private student loans, or only federally subsidized ones? My understanding is that the DoE has no legal interest in the former. Also, for many students, private loan obligations dwarf federal loan obligations. Also, under which criteria did your client receive loan forgiveness? Total/permanent disability? TPD will only apply to only a small fraction of bo…

As far as I am aware DoE can discharge any loans they originate (subsidized, subsidized and PLUS loans). Between sub and unsub that covers up to ~$18k/year, meanwhile only 1 in 10 student end up with over $40k total. PLUS loans are probably closer to private loans in obligation as parent loans can cover multiple children.

In my client's case it was >$100k of parent PLUS loans, discharged under TPD. Statistics suggest TPD could apply to as many as 20% of borrowers. Again this number will only increase as baby boomers get older. I don't know if "small fraction" is a fair description or not of 20%, but that would still mean >$12B of parent plus loans alone are eligible for discharge under DoE TPD.

One problem I experience first hand as a lawyer is potential clients who actually are eligible but they don't believe it. Worse they think it is some type of scam, because they believe it is impossible to discharge student loans. Something tells me if I discharged >$100k in student loans for a parent as a SV startup rather than in my capacity as a lawyer, I might be hailed as disrupting student loan debt rather than lucky.

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