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Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

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Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#101

Post by denzil_correa »

petke wrote: post #70
erbdex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

Some access is better than no access but some types of "some access" are better than other types of "some access".

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#102

Post by bigbugbag »

sremani wrote: post #32
nutanc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people are there everywhere in the world. It's just surprising that Facebook decided to help the poor in India before doing anything for the poor in the US. Especially given the fact that the data costs are huge in US. Facebook can decide to do what it wants,but this type of spending on propaganda trying to change the policy in India is not acceptable and maybe not even legal. Not sure,but would it be allowed fo…

Mark Zukerberg donated $100 million to Newark Schools, which I think is helping economically backward students. Internet penetration in US is huge, and there are several subsidies in place esp. in urban areas. Internet connectivity problems in US are mostly for rural and geographically distant locations. So comparing US vs India especially based on per KB costs does not give complete picture and MZ, told again again…

> Mark Zukerberg donated $100 million to Newark School...

With some quite interesting results and consequences[1], you can't just drop a big bunch of monies on soomething expect it to solve itself or be successful.

[1]:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/19/schooled

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#103

Post by goodJobWalrus »

erbdex wrote: post #44
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #43

Indian here. The manipulation has been incredibly blatant and scummy. It's not even funny anymore. Friends who categorically denied having sent a mail to the Indian telecom regulatory authority on Facebook's behalf (conveniently supplied by Facebook) show up on my feed as having signed the mail. It's an all-out blitzkrieg. I've seen full page ads in newspapers, banners at bus stops, even ads on local Indian websites.…

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

This is just gross.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#104

Post by athenot »

mehrdada wrote: post #52
sremani wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us not judge from Intellectual Ivory towers, the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access. You sometimes have to try "impure" methods. The question is still up in the air, whether FB Basics is gateway to full internet or if it is a walled garden. Either way, it is better than No Access. The immediate retort I get is, why not facebook provide free internet access to poor. Guys, is it thei…

> the facts on the ground are 80% of Indians do not have internet access The facts on the ground for everywhere in the world not too long ago was worse than 20% access to the Internet. And I bet the current 20% Indian Internet users have much much faster connections than dial-up. Things change. Fast. It is disingenuous to ignore the natural connectivity growth trajectory and focus on today's number only. Most will ge…

This is a repeat of AOL's playbook in the US in the 90's. Sure the internet existed and the web was around, but they were more interested in pushing their curated online service.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#105

Post by mahranch »

jarsj wrote: post #80
mahranch wrote: post #75

If I was facebook, I'd tread lightly. India has a long history of reneging on deals. Once a deal is struck with most nations, that's it. Done deal. With India, they don't care - they'll do whatever is convenient for them. They did just that on a huge WTO deal years in the making (source: http://www.npr.org/2014/08/10/339292735/why-indias-modi-defi... ). The also reneged on a solar energy trade agreement with the U.S…

I guess you have no idea what this is really about. All we are asking our Govt. is to adopt same Net Neutrality standards that exist in US and other EU countries. Companies like Uber/Amazon are already pumping huge money in India because they need us, not vice-versa. Just because we are open, unlike China, doesn't mean you can play unfair.

> All we are asking our Govt. is to adopt same Net Neutrality standards that exist in US and other EU countries.

I understand that, and support it 100%. I am 100% pro-net neutrality.

> Just because we are open, unlike China, doesn't mean you can play unfair.

My issue is that India will play unfair. They have a history of it.

Say what you will about all the people who have their own anecdotal bad experiences with Indian companies & professionals over the last 5-10 years (dozens of accounts that I've read here, on our very own hackernews), but the simple fact of the matter is that even India's government has a track record of reneging on deals. And these weren't small deals, these were deals years in the making.

That's not good for India. Investors will (and are) balking at the idea of entering the Indian market because who knows when India will pull the rug out from under them when the mood strikes. There's also very little legal recourse when that does happen. It doesn't help when your country is among the most corrupt countries on the planet; they ranked 94th in Transparency International's corruption index. There are 93 countries less corrupt than India. Source: http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#106

Post by Manishearth »

prostoalex wrote: post #89
quadrangle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Facebook is rich enough and powerful enough to MAKE the choice be full-internet or nothing. They and other powerful entities can provide full internet. It is THEIR fault that the choice is FaceBook or nothing because they want that to be the choice. FaceBook is not some savior here. The ramifications of pushing everyone to FB are also devastating because they would force everyone to get locked in to using F…

Facebook is not a carrier. If any carrier chooses to provide full Internet access for free, they may do so. So far they haven't, though. Which is why company-sponsored basic service that's free to the users emerged in the first place.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10791939

One carrier is already trying this.

Also, facebook isn't even financing the actual data (the carriers are), and the carriers' business plan (get people hooked onto the Internet so they migrate to a full plan) works on any form of "free limited internet" plan, where the plan is limited by speed or a data cap instead of by limiting what "Internet" means. Facebook is a third party which has wedged itself into this with extra deals; but the situation from the carriers' point of view shouldn't be much different if they set a free data cap or provide a free slow internet plan.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#107

Post by manash »

tdaltonc wrote: post #88
manash wrote: post #74

Why not let "our less fortunate brothers" decided what they want. If they don't want free internet, then its their choice. How insane is it to let the TRAI regulate the internet! Do you not see the internet is the only real means of liberating people? And you want a group of elite people to control this! What happens to the "these airwaves belong to us" argument when the government bans anti-govt web sites or porn we…

"Why not let [the customer] choose" is an argument that can be made of any net neutrality debate. Should there be fast-lanes in the US? TWC: We'll offer plans with and without fast-lanes and let the customers choose! Either the internet is the internet or it's not. Facebook wants to bring Facebook to rural villages? Fine, but they have to bring the whole internet with them.

"Should there be fast-lanes in the US?"

Yes. Why not? Just like should there be expensive doctors, restaurants, entertainment, etc.? Obviously yes.

"Either the internet is the internet or it's not. Facebook wants to bring Facebook to rural villages? Fine, but they have to bring the whole internet with them."

My point is let the people in the rural villages decided wether they want Facebook internet or other forms of internet. Please don't decide on their behalf. It is very patronizing and antithetical to progess.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#109

Post by sebastianavina »

petke wrote: post #70
erbdex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

the main problem is that you cant beat "free", Facebook will kill the incentive for deploying internet at rural areas, and some day they will only have facebook and will be tied to it...

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#110

Post by Manishearth »

icebraining wrote: post #59
addicted wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the equivalent Facebook solution to the drug problem would be "Hey, we don't need to do clinical trials, because some medicine is better than no medicine, since there are desperate people who are willing to accept anything right now".

You mean, like the right-to-try laws that have been passed by 25 US states, allowing doctors to prescribe drugs not yet approved by the FDA? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-try_law

You still need a different form of FDA approval possibly involving animal trials (among other things) before getting "experimental drug" status.
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