101–110 of 111 posts
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You're thinking too logically. It is a human connection you're building with empathy, not a strategy. Play the long game.
But do you want to live with this person? If I hold an opinion that's so sub optimal and I hold it because of emotional reasons I'd like someone to shake me out of it, not pet me on the head and smile.
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It should be addressed with legislation making it a felony not to vaccinate your children by a reason early childhood age (e.g. 6 years or something), whether put in public school or not, and making proof of vaccination a requirement for federal aid for that person (e.g. student loans or assistance). There are certain things that should be up for public debate and discourse, left to the courts, or up to personal pref…
That legislation should be coupled with the removal of legal liability for children by parents. It cuts both ways, if parents are unable to make choices for their children (even if they are wrong choices) then they should be absolved of all legal responsibility for said children as they are no longer able to act as the guardian in a manner that they view as the best course of action by their children. I would go furt…
You don't get to create people and then go "well I can't do what I want with them, they're not really my responsibility any more".
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> legitimate reasons to distrust the medical and scientific arguments (as pointed out in the article, both medicine and the science behind drugs have been spectacularly wrong more than once) Viewing failures in isolation is not really helpful. You need to compare them to successes and the failure/success rate of the alternatives. Things get even more complicated when you start distinguishing cure/ineffective/harmful.
What if the numbers work out against vaccination? To quote CDC http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm "Of the 162 cases, eight cases were acquired outside the United States and imported. The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993. The remaining 154 cases were vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) caused by live oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV)." 162 p…
I'm so not surprised by the comments here, so far. The core points here are good ones: - In a fundamentally emotional argument, you 'win' with empathy, not by beating people over the head with the same (very reasonable) arguments they've heard a hundred times. - Vaccines are certainly effective, they are the correct choice, but there are also absolutely legitimate reasons to distrust the medical and scientific argume…
It should be addressed with legislation making it a felony not to vaccinate your children by a reason early childhood age (e.g. 6 years or something), whether put in public school or not, and making proof of vaccination a requirement for federal aid for that person (e.g. student loans or assistance). There are certain things that should be up for public debate and discourse, left to the courts, or up to personal pref…
We got the "Vaccine Revolt" as result, people openly rebelled, and even tried to topple the government (the population formed a riotous mob and assaulted the government buildings, attempting to kill the rulers).
The government had to declare martial law, send troops to quell the rebellion, and internally exiled lots of people (the government sent the "exiles" to the state that was the most distant of the capital, and was also one of the least populous states).
I am very sure that in US, the people that would join such revolt, as the same ones that believe being armed to resist the government is good idea, you do the math.
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What if the numbers work out against vaccination? To quote CDC http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm "Of the 162 cases, eight cases were acquired outside the United States and imported. The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993. The remaining 154 cases were vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) caused by live oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV)." 162 p…
Vaccine induced polio is not nearly as bad as wild-type polio. And this would also be the reason we phased out giving the polio vaccine.
Isn't that the core of the anti-vaxxers arguments?
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It should be addressed with legislation making it a felony not to vaccinate your children by a reason early childhood age (e.g. 6 years or something), whether put in public school or not, and making proof of vaccination a requirement for federal aid for that person (e.g. student loans or assistance). There are certain things that should be up for public debate and discourse, left to the courts, or up to personal pref…
What would you think of a similar argument, but, instead of for forced vaccination, for forced compliance with following government nutritional recommendations when we feed children? The health consequences of a childhood of poor eating are arguably as big a problem as many (but not all) of the diseases we vaccinate against were. I've not been able to come up with a good argument to distinguish these, other than the…
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If you actually read the article, you will see that vaccinations were real. Not to mention that this story has absolutely nothing to do with Western anti-vaxer movement.
> If you actually read the article, you will see that vaccinations were real. And if you had read the article you would have noticed that the second part of the vaccine plan was never administered. > Not to mention that this story has absolutely nothing to do with Western anti-vaxer movement. People are not vaccinating their children for all kinds of reasons, one of them is a distrust of authorities to have the best…
That doesn't make vaccinations fake, regardless of what some Guardian editor decides to put in his headline.
"People are not vaccinating their children for all kinds of reasons, one of them is a distrust of authorities to have the best interest of their children at heart. For those people the cold hard proof that authorities are willing to use vaccination programs to further other ends is certainly not going to help swing them to the other side."
This is nonsense. Then again antivaxers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, so they may see things that way.
My guess is that people don't want to vaccinate their kids simply because they perceive the potential negative risk from vaccinations to exceed potential gain.
They may distrust the government if they believe that the government wants to make sure there are no contagious diseases around but can accept a certain % of autism or whatever as a result. I don't think Bin Laden drive would make any difference for this calculus.
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Vaccine induced polio is not nearly as bad as wild-type polio. And this would also be the reason we phased out giving the polio vaccine.
So the probability of a health issue attributed to vaccine is higher than probability of a health issue attributed to the original disease. Isn't that the core of the anti-vaxxers arguments?
But that only applies to diseases which lack a natural harbor like polio does, where eradication is practical. Stop vaccinating for measles and oh surprise there is now an outbreak of measles. We haven't needed to seriously vaccinate for polio for over a decade.
But that itself is all sorts of iffy because there are two quite different polio vaccines of different effectiveness.
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So the probability of a health issue attributed to vaccine is higher than probability of a health issue attributed to the original disease. Isn't that the core of the anti-vaxxers arguments?
No, the probability of getting a health issue due to the vaccine has now become much higher then the probability of getting polio . Your comment rather suggests you don't know much about polio: I suggest looking it up. But that only applies to diseases which lack a natural harbor like polio does, where eradication is practical. Stop vaccinating for measles and oh surprise there is now an outbreak of measles. We haven…
Now try to convince the aforementioned member of general public to treat the current corpus of medical research as a gospel.
I dont't defend those decisions, but I can see how a rational person might develop somewhat of a sceptical view.
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It should be addressed with legislation making it a felony not to vaccinate your children by a reason early childhood age (e.g. 6 years or something), whether put in public school or not, and making proof of vaccination a requirement for federal aid for that person (e.g. student loans or assistance). There are certain things that should be up for public debate and discourse, left to the courts, or up to personal pref…
Brazil tried that. We got the "Vaccine Revolt" as result, people openly rebelled, and even tried to topple the government (the population formed a riotous mob and assaulted the government buildings, attempting to kill the rulers). The government had to declare martial law, send troops to quell the rebellion, and internally exiled lots of people (the government sent the "exiles" to the state that was the most distant…
There's certainly some overlap but to imply that you're "very sure" they're the same group would make you very wrong.