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The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

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Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#101
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a national "voting day" holiday. Not having one is the equivalent of a poll tax for hourly wage workers.

In my area, polls are open from 9 AM (or maybe earlier - I'm not a morning person) to 9 PM. No matter what your shift, you should be able to find a time to get there without having to take off work.

or have it on a saturday like lots of countries do

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people think if their number "N" is high enough they can call themselves "middle class" to distinguish themselves from poorer people, but it's a small distinction That isn't true. I work for a living but I also accumulate 5 figures of capital every year, do that for 20-25 years, and I don't have to work for a living anymore. Working class folks don't really have that option. > Sure you may have more toys than…

That is poor financial planning. If you are middle income, you should be saving money so you don't have to work for a living instead of buying more toys. That is an entirely subjective personal preference. If your goal is to be able to retire early and live off your savings, go ahead. However, if your goal is to also live before you retire and you understand that the only value of money is in the things you value tha…

> But the idea that saving everything you can instead of buying some things you value has never made sense to me. It only really makes a difference if you expect that you will one day need all of that money in order to pay for the essentials, and short of catastrophic bad luck it seems unlikely that anyone with the ability to set aside significant savings in the first place will ever be in that position.

I've seen catastrophic bad luck happen to enough people who thought it couldn't happen to them and then destroy their marriages/careers/etc pretty thoroughly that I just have no faith that is correct.

> That is an entirely subjective personal preference. If your goal is to be able to retire early and live off your savings, go ahead. However, if your goal is to also live before you retire and you understand that the only value of money is in the things you value that you can obtain with it, you might make entirely different financial choices.

The US savings rate is consistently in the 4-6% range with few outliers. You may want to consider I was assuming people would interpret my statement reasonably and that I was implying spending money instead of saving it when you were saving at an average rate was a bad idea.

And yes, 4-6% is too small if you want to sustain your standard of living in retirement as a middle income member of society.

"Toys" implies frivolity that doesn't involve something people feel are truly necessary to make themselves happy.

Given on HN we know most mid-level devs make ~$70-100k [adjusted for cost of living], saving 20% isn't some extreme world view [which is what it'd take to save 5 figures/year].

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is poor financial planning. If you are middle income, you should be saving money so you don't have to work for a living instead of buying more toys. That is an entirely subjective personal preference. If your goal is to be able to retire early and live off your savings, go ahead. However, if your goal is to also live before you retire and you understand that the only value of money is in the things you value tha…

don't take these self-important penny-pinchers you find on hn too seriously. their condescension stems from a fundamental insecurity of some sort that they're projecting onto others, it's hard to put a finger on but it's definitely there. they don't know anyone's situation, they just know spending money on things you like is bad. it's like some kind of alternative religious orthodoxy. imagine if they had the same att…

If you feel saving $10k/year is "extreme and condescending" and saying that is what you should do with your life...

1) The retirement laws setup basically say that is what you should do which is why their limit is ~$23k/year.

2) Good luck retiring in the future saving less than $10k/year.

3) Literally every financial planner on the planet tells you to save 10-15% of your income which for a developer is going to work out to ~$10k.

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#104
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, polls are open from 9 AM (or maybe earlier - I'm not a morning person) to 9 PM. No matter what your shift, you should be able to find a time to get there without having to take off work.

or have it on a saturday like lots of countries do

People work on Saturday, too. Less, it's true, but still enough that you can't disenfranchise them.
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