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Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

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Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#101

> The company finds top-notch freelance developers, designers, and project managers with pedigrees from MIT, CalTech, Google, and Stripe, and only accepts 5% of applicants. Why would such individuals be willing to work as a contractor for this company in a great enough number and at a low enough rate to make this model scalable and profitable? Something doesn't add up here.

I think they just will outsource everything to third world countries.

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#102

This type of progression in software development is inevitable. Groups of people writing individual lines of code for bespoke apps will one day go the same way looms in factories went after the industrial revolution. I run a software company, and we've actually moved away from fixed price projects and only provide development on a day rate. Fixed price/scope/timescale projects are incredibly risky, require massive am…

> This type of progression in software development is inevitable. Groups of people writing individual lines of code for bespoke apps will one day go the same way looms in factories went after the industrial revolution. > I run a software company, and we've actually moved away from fixed price projects and only provide development on a day rate. Fixed price/scope/timescale projects are incredibly risky, require massive amounts of project management resource, and can be insanely unprofitable if the specifications for the work are not watertight and the client isn't managed well.

These two sentences don't seem to make sense. On the one hand, you say it's inevitable. On the other hand, as someone who has RUN a software company, you say you couldn't figure it out. Is that correct?

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've done this before, RAD tools in the early 2000s and then a few years after that it was workflows. It doesn't work. One of the skills of being a programmer is to change a business workflow, which are often very vague and even very inefficient and open to interpretation, into a logical workflow. Business people just don't have that skill, so what happens is that you need a bunch of programmers to operate the RAD t…

Wow I was just waiting to ask someone who's seen this stuff about this. I'm planning to create some tools ease CRUD workflows. I think my point was not properly conveyed. The goal is not to get the pointy haired boss programming your expense report app. But instead of paying someone with 4 years of experience , you just use a team of people you trained in 3 - 4 months to do most of the screens using such tools . Is t…

I haven't seen any modern ones, but back in the day it was generally a complete and utter disaster.

And having extensible points doesn't work.

The whole problem is that if they're complicated enough to actually encode a client's project, they're so complicated that they're really just a visual programming language.

But that means all the code conditions are hidden in drop-downs and checkboxes. But in reality that's the logic, those options are the code, but you can't easily read the code. If you can't read the code, you can't understand the code. So increasingly no-one has a clue what the system is really doing and you have to test it like crazy.

It also makes it very hard to know what has and hasn't changed and even if you can diff it somehow you often can't even understand what the change means.

Other problems include the 'extensible points' not being atomic enough, or too atomic, or badly documented, or badly coded, or just plain insanely coded. And if there's a bug you've got to wait for the code generator to be fixed.

And finally you are locked in to your vendor. Which becomes a big deal.

What happens is that you'll start writing your own code to fix these problems, or edit the auto-generated output somehow (if you're lucky enough to be allowed to) and it'll rapidly turn in to a complete mess that only 1 or 2 people really understand what's going on and it takes a month to do changes that should take a day or two.

ORMs are the closest we get to auto-code generation and there's a reason we stop there. We learnt from bitter experience. And even they can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Still, I guess we've got to try again every now and then, one day someone might nail it.

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#104

> The company finds top-notch freelance developers, designers, and project managers with pedigrees from MIT, CalTech, Google, and Stripe, and only accepts 5% of applicants. Why would such individuals be willing to work as a contractor for this company in a great enough number and at a low enough rate to make this model scalable and profitable? Something doesn't add up here.

unless they have a secret pipeline of talented coders who don't want to be in an office, live in the woods or on the beach, work 3-4 hours a day, collaborate minimally, and never have to worry about finding new work or maintaining a pipeline. Actually, that sounds nice. But still, seems like there's not that many around from MIT, CalTech, Google and Stripe. People with that pedigree have huge opportunity costs; why would they work for below market enough to make this attractive to the clients?

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#105
post #102

This type of progression in software development is inevitable. Groups of people writing individual lines of code for bespoke apps will one day go the same way looms in factories went after the industrial revolution. I run a software company, and we've actually moved away from fixed price projects and only provide development on a day rate. Fixed price/scope/timescale projects are incredibly risky, require massive am…

> This type of progression in software development is inevitable. Groups of people writing individual lines of code for bespoke apps will one day go the same way looms in factories went after the industrial revolution. > I run a software company, and we've actually moved away from fixed price projects and only provide development on a day rate. Fixed price/scope/timescale projects are incredibly risky, require massiv…

It is of course inevitable that somebody more intelligent than me is going to automate the development of bespoke software.

We don't automate software development, we still do it the old fashioned way. As such rather than attempt to tackle the problems associated with fixed price projects, we changed our business model to charge a day rate and reduce risk that way. We took this approach because we don't have millions of dollars of investors money in the bank to allow us to trial and error other solutions.

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#106

Can someone explain how their AI produces even remotely accurate quotes? Also what is the price range of these projects?

Pricing page: https://gigster.com/pricing

It doesn't seem very AI really. I guess for something that doesn't fit their sliders a human has a look?

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#107

> The company finds top-notch freelance developers, designers, and project managers with pedigrees from MIT, CalTech, Google, and Stripe, and only accepts 5% of applicants. Why would such individuals be willing to work as a contractor for this company in a great enough number and at a low enough rate to make this model scalable and profitable? Something doesn't add up here.

Take a look at the pricing page: https://gigster.com/pricing

Gigster is anything but cheap.

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#108
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

especially when you use MIT graduates to do the actual work. lol...

What MIT grad want's this job..? My guess is that they exaggerate this quite a bit. The xyz graduates are probably the founders :)

Why wouldn't an MIT grad want to work flexible hours from anywhere in the world?

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#109
post #71

Hasn't software been eating software development ever since the first compiler was written?

Kinda. Things like compilers increase software produced per hour but the total quantity of software demanded is open ended.

Re: Software Eats Software Development as Andreessen Invests $10M in App Outsourcer

#110
post #63

Why invest 10M when he could've just asked Gigster to make a better Gigster?

Good question; I think you were going for funny, but you highlighted what they can and can't do there.

They build apps. So I'm sure sell you 90% of their code, but they can't re-code their brand name, repeat costumers and the staff that they seem to take some pride in.

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