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A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

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Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#101
So, here's my take on all this 'surveillance is good for you'.

It more or less proves (to me at least) that the government(s) and the various secret services have absolutely no idea who to monitor specifically. So instead of targeting their operations they want to monitor all of us, just in case something of interest pops out that then allows them to focus their attention.

It's a pretty scary thought: just imagine, all that money, all those resources and still they can't do anything other than to put their ear to the ground and hope that someone messes up in plaintext so they can then try to backtrack and see what they might have missed.

In all these attacks it never happened that everybody was under the radar. Always one or more of the attackers that were technically known or even already under surveillance. And yet the attacks happened anyway. Too many targets make for a very thinly deployed service, which then has to be automated to make it work at all.

It's a pretty sobering thought, it also suggests via yet another route that mass surveillance is indeed meant to attempt to 'keep us safe', and that it fails miserably. The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.

Terrorists have it so easy, all they need to do is to be just a little bit unpredictable or simply old-fashioned (in person) and there won't be anything whatsoever that we can concretely do to stop them. The only thing that actually gives a bunch of actionable data is when an attack is executed or when an attack goes sour (or rather: sweet as in, it does not work) from which direct evidence of contacts or plans is gained. This will then lead to a relatively short lived number of arrests clustered around the people caught or implicated and then it burns out again where the data ends.

And so then we get to wait for the next attack...

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#102
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone care to enlighten me as to why I'm being downvoted?

No idea, it's an opinion, however, many nations have suppressed many other nations and it's historically atypical for the aggrieved to lash out to others of indirect involvement. Have Congolese (after the conflict ended) gone and bombed Belgium, or why not Albania, who had no relation to Belgium's involvement?

It's not about some abstract historical notion of right and wrong. The US has created an environment that fosters terrorism. Whether this is wronger or righter than any historical colonialism by other countries is completely irrelevant. We've created "the YC for terrorists" in the countries we have smashed in the Middle East, and now there is a lot of terrorism.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#103
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone care to enlighten me as to why I'm being downvoted?

No idea, it's an opinion, however, many nations have suppressed many other nations and it's historically atypical for the aggrieved to lash out to others of indirect involvement. Have Congolese (after the conflict ended) gone and bombed Belgium, or why not Albania, who had no relation to Belgium's involvement?

[deleted]

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#104
post #83
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best backdoor to encryption has always been social. Talk the right way to the right people... and it doesn't matter what type of security you have. Isn't that the entire purpose of agencies like the CIA? It just bothers me when privacy is treated as a negative thing, for the greater good or not. Encryption is a tool to create privacy. The ability to create privacy should be a point of pride as not everyone has th…

Except encryption provides a level of privacy that has never before been possible. Could you imagine a physical padlock that was unable to be cracked, cut, or circumvented in any way? It is easy to see how that would scare law enforcement. Imagine your job is to keep people safe. Now envision a kid strapped to a bomb inside a shack and the only thing preventing you from breaking in and saving that kid's life is that…

That's a good analogy, but the padlock has already bolted!

Information about the uncrackable padlock is widely available. Bad guys will always be able to get these padlocks from the black market. The question is whether we want the good guys (i.e. us) to have the padlocks too.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#105
"I was able to leave and come to Shām (Syria) despite being chased after by so many intelligence agencies. My name and picture were all over the news yet I was able to stay in their homeland, plan operations against them, and leave safely when doing so became necessary," Abaaoud claimed in the interview, according to ISIS."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/europe/paris-terror-attack-mas...

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a government apologist That's entirely uncalled for. Just because you disagree does not make someone a government apologist. I guess you'll call me a government apologist next.

He is defending a corrupt institution which has repeatedly lied, tortured and murdered. Also,what he wrote is wrong, chances are not better than even that some random issue is a certain way because of some complex technical reason, most decisions in DC are made through the lens of politics, ask anyone who works in policy and they will say the same.

I might even agree with you. But that's no reason to resort to name-calling. Attack the reasoning, not the person.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#108
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The ability to create privacy should be a point of pride as not everyone has that luxury. It should be a human right. I agree; so does the UN in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Article 12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such inter…

Who exactly enforces the UN's Declaration of Human Rights? Without power to back it up it means nothing.

[deleted]

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#109
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best backdoor to encryption has always been social. Talk the right way to the right people... and it doesn't matter what type of security you have. Isn't that the entire purpose of agencies like the CIA? It just bothers me when privacy is treated as a negative thing, for the greater good or not. Encryption is a tool to create privacy. The ability to create privacy should be a point of pride as not everyone has th…

>The ability to create privacy should be a point of pride as not everyone has that luxury. It should be a human right. I agree; so does the UN in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Article 12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such inter…

In addition to what torgo said, there are a few countries that have only upheld UN directives and treaties when it suits them. The US is a example of this.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#110

So, here's my take on all this 'surveillance is good for you'. It more or less proves (to me at least) that the government(s) and the various secret services have absolutely no idea who to monitor specifically. So instead of targeting their operations they want to monitor all of us, just in case something of interest pops out that then allows them to focus their attention. It's a pretty scary thought: just imagine, a…

> It more or less proves (to me at least) that the government(s) and the various secret services have absolutely no idea who to monitor specifically. So instead of targeting their operations they want to monitor all of us, just in case something of interest pops out that then allows them to focus their attention.

Except that most of the recent terror attacks have involved at least one person known to the authorities. One of the Paris attackers even had an international arrest warrant out for him.

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