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New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

economist.com

101–110 of 146 posts

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#101

In eastern Los Angeles, coyotes are everywhere , to the point where in some areas you run into them constantly day or night. They're stealthy - silent and very calculating. You can tell many of them are part domestic dog and they don't seem phased by proximity to people and appear to understand the workings of the city to some extent. I have seen the mentioned looking both ways when crossing roads, and also use of si…

I welcome our Coywolf overlords.

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's quite likely because we don't want natural predators to get used to the taste of human flesh. What do you suggest to dispose of human cadavers other than burying them because other methods like incineration and the likes are not as economic as the former method?

> What do you suggest to dispose of human cadavers other than burying them...[?] Have you read Stranger in a Strange Land?

Yeah, I'll do that when my friends' ghosts show up to tell me that I should do it. And even then, they might get run through another link in the food chain first--maybe even two--because I don't want spongiform encephalopathy (kuru).

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#104
post #60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Not wanting to put words in your mouth, but that sounds like trying to impose a vegan lifestyle (for the record: I'm vegetarian and mostly vegan now) to the animal kingdom. I can understand part of the sentiment, but I'm a bit cautious of 1) the possibility of that happening 2) the impacts 3) the ethics.

That's an accurate representation of my views. Though as I said, it's pretty low on the list of things that need fixing. One day –hopefully– humanity will have its shit together. Then the majority of suffering will be inflicted by (non-human) animals upon other animals. What do we do about that? I don't have an answer, but I'm pretty sure "let it continue" isn't it. To bring the discussion back to the present: I thin…

That doesn't make any sense. You treat a human being as one entity and a whole animal species as one entity. Almost nobody would see any problem with killing a particular wolf that repeatedly attacks people.

Diseases that are part of erradication programs used to kill or cause lifelong disability to millions. Diseases that kill thousands could be recommended to vaccinate aginst for those at risk. There would hardly be any research into a disease that kills 10 people a year.

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this method which is used in Tibet and a few other places https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial

I had no idea that such practice existed, thanks for sharing! Not to take away any credit from your argument but not all places on Earth have mountains nearby. Also, I assume that since these nations and people live in mountainous terrains, they had to come up with a method to dispose of those cadavers in the face of land scarcity where they live.

Tibetans also do a water burial. The first time I was there, I was asking about eating fish and birds in addition to mammals, and was told, "Tibetans do not eat fish and birds because fish and birds eat people," which I first thought was a joke.

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#106

Hybridization is super interesting from an evolutionary perspective. Two populations can evolve down very different paths. Evolving all sorts of new genes and adaptions. Then hybridization mixes it all up. And over time, the best combination of genes from both species will be selected for. Creating something more fit than either of the original species.

Not so fast with the evolutionary fantasies. If they can breed and produce fertile offspring, are they really different species? Maybe we've got the definitions wrong somewhere.

Biologists often ignore the traditional "breed with fertile offspring" definition when it doesn't fit the facts on the ground. For example, the Smew[1] can hybridize with the Common Goldeneye. Not only are they different species, but they are different genus!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smew

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#107

One outcome of this interbreeding is that these animals have lost their fear of people, but they retain their predatory instincts, making them quite dangerous. There are coyotes in the northern part of Nova Scotia that have attacked lone hikers. A woman was killed, in fact a few years ago, and there have been numerous scary encounters in which the animal creeps closer and closer to a wary human, much like a predator…

> One outcome of this interbreeding is that these animals have lost their fear of people, but they retain their predatory instincts, making them quite dangerous. They're going to find out fairly quickly that this combination is maladaptive. This also explains why dog and wolfs split... you can be aggressive and fear people, or you can be friendly and not fear people, but not both.

Or you can be a stray dog living on the street being just aggressive enough that people don't bother you, but you aren't being killed because you're protected by a treaty for humane treatment of animals and your numbers aren't dwindling fast enough because people aren't spaying their pets and the government doesn't have enough resources to spay every stray. You also learn how to appear cute and harmless when hungry and how to jump on a table, grab a loaf of bread and run at over 30mph uphill.

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#108

So this is why we have been noticing exponentially more "coyotes" roaming around the suburbs of the GTA recently? My girlfriend was walking our dog last week and saw 3 of them within an hour. The next morning she saw 2. The other day I was walking the dog and some kid stopped me to warn me about a "wolf" that was growling at him around the corner. This is all within steps of our small "downtown" and I just kept think…

Pepper spray? Are guns outlawed in Canada? Why not just shoot it on sight?

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#109
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so fast with the evolutionary fantasies. If they can breed and produce fertile offspring, are they really different species? Maybe we've got the definitions wrong somewhere.

If you change "species" to "population" in the parent comment everything still works.

Yes, but is it evolution or simply adaptation within an existing framework?

Re: New species combining wolf, coyote, and dog emerges in eastern North America

#110
post #60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Not wanting to put words in your mouth, but that sounds like trying to impose a vegan lifestyle (for the record: I'm vegetarian and mostly vegan now) to the animal kingdom. I can understand part of the sentiment, but I'm a bit cautious of 1) the possibility of that happening 2) the impacts 3) the ethics.

That's an accurate representation of my views. Though as I said, it's pretty low on the list of things that need fixing. One day –hopefully– humanity will have its shit together. Then the majority of suffering will be inflicted by (non-human) animals upon other animals. What do we do about that? I don't have an answer, but I'm pretty sure "let it continue" isn't it. To bring the discussion back to the present: I thin…

I might be on board with eradicating parasitism from the Earth ecosystem. But there's no way I would agree to eliminate non-human predation, ever.

Yes. Let it continue. It is not your place to eliminate anyone else's suffering, in humans or otherwise.

I once read "Three Worlds Collide" by E. Yudkowsky. There are alternate endings to the story, that I won't spoil. But it is a tale intended to make you think about your own ethics. It is a long hypothetical that sets up the question, "What could it mean to have an ethical imperative to eliminate suffering?"

I didn't like the endings. I think it is unethical to project your own morality onto other species.

And that's the story that made me realize that those who practice veganism because they do not wish to inflict suffering upon other species for their own benefit are perfectly reasonable people, capable of coexisting with others, whereas those who would attempt to enforce that lifestyle upon others are a threat to me. When you cross over that line between "I don't" and "you shouldn't", I become wary. When you move a bit further to "no one should", you become my enemy.

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