IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards • Hacker News Board

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#101

Post by tjoff » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 8:50 PM UTC

abtinf wrote: post #54

p_eter_p wrote: post #46

There is a special place in hell reserved for the designer who swapped the function and control key placement on that keyboard. Thankfully you can change it in the bios.

You say swapped, I say its the correct placement. I use control much more frequently than fn, and its easier to reach it with my pinky on the thinkpad keyboard.

How is that physically possible?

I had a temporary job transcribing videotaped meetings to text and I used ctrl a lot for controlling the video. That fn placement almost killed my left hand, would have been perfectly fine if they were switched but that alone greatly limited my freedom of movement as I really wanted to borrow a sane keyboard wherever I went.

edit: I guess it must depend on the size of the keyboard. On the x-series it was unforgivable.

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#102

Post by AceJohnny2 » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 8:51 PM UTC

p_eter_p wrote: post #46

There is a special place in hell reserved for the designer who swapped the function and control key placement on that keyboard. Thankfully you can change it in the bios.

> Thankfully you can change it in the bios.

Unlike on Macbooks and the Apple Wireless Keyboard. Grump.

Yes, you can use Karabiner[1] to swap the keys, but it's not at a low enough level that it works everywhere. Still, it's good enough for most use.

[1] https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#103

Post by kw71 » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 8:59 PM UTC

WizzleKake wrote: post #7

http://www.pckeyboard.com/ Unicomp is still keeping the glory days of the IBM Model M keyboard alive.

I used to like the Model M keyboard, before I knew anything. When my wrists started hurting, I discovered the cherry keyboards and that the Model M requires a disgustingly large force to depress the keys. My M's are now rusting in the garage, and I'm using cherry browns pain free. Also I have extra keys with hardware macros, which aren't dependent on some host software to work properly, so I can activate my console switch, etc.

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#104

Post by Puriney » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

Nothing could be impossibly manufactured at China, e.g. Huaqiangbei Shenzhen. Take it as a friendly reminder from a Chinese. See also the news describing everything could be found at Huaqiangbei (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gallery/2014/jun/13/hu...)

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#105

Post by SloopJon » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #20

jseliger wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are excellent and I used one for years: http://jakeseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-cus... before switching to a Kinesis Advantage. Though I like the keyfeel of the Model M better, the ergonomics of the Kinesis are better.

Can anyone discuss the ergonomics of the Kinesis? It has MX Brown Cherry switches which are easier on the hands, for example. I've often wonder if its unique shape had proven benefits. Many people have tried using it but have given up. Is it better than an ErgoDox, for instance? http://ergodox.org

Having admired the Kinesis Advantage from afar for years, I got one from Massdrop. I've used it at work almost exclusively for the last couple of months, having previously used the wireless Apple keyboard (the small one).

Biggest peeve is that I frequently hit the arrow keys on the bottom row by accident. Not being very good at using them on purpose, this completely throws me off for a second or two.

Minor annoyance is that the modifier keys sometimes stick. I don't think they're physically stuck; more like a firmware glitch, so that it's as if Caps Lock is on (mine's remapped to Ctrl), or I get accented characters as if Alt is stuck.

I still have trouble switching between the straight matrix layout of the Kinesis and the staggered layout of traditional keyboards, which I continue to use at home. Nothing major, but definitely some reduced accuracy.

So my experience is decidedly mixed. I'll keep at it until the end of the year at least, but I'm not convinced it's any better ergonomically. In fact, I've had some soreness in my left thumb that may be related to the new keyboard.

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#106

Post by iliis » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #47

jonbaer wrote: post #26

Does no one remember the Butterfly keyboard on the 701? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_ThinkPad_Butterfly_keyboar...

IBM did some creative (and useful!) things with the early Thinkpads. Remember the 755CD/V? You could pull the backlight off the LCD and strap the laptop to an overhead projector. http://thinkwiki.de/images/0/07/755cdv-overhead.jpg

Awesome, I would never have tought that this is/was an actual product! We tried to do something like this as teenagers with an old (normal) LCD, but some ribbon-cables were in the way. Still, there are people building projectors themselves using that method.

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#107

Post by joezydeco » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

iliis wrote: post #106

joezydeco wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM did some creative (and useful!) things with the early Thinkpads. Remember the 755CD/V? You could pull the backlight off the LCD and strap the laptop to an overhead projector. http://thinkwiki.de/images/0/07/755cdv-overhead.jpg

Awesome, I would never have tought that this is/was an actual product! We tried to do something like this as teenagers with an old (normal) LCD, but some ribbon-cables were in the way. Still, there are people building projectors themselves using that method.

I have one. It's pretty simple in practice, although the LCD fades as it heats up from the projector's light.

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#108

Post by Cau5tik » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

p_eter_p wrote: post #46

There is a special place in hell reserved for the designer who swapped the function and control key placement on that keyboard. Thankfully you can change it in the bios.

OMIGAWSH THANK YOU

I picked up an X220 as my first thinkpad a couple weeks ago and this has been driving me more than a little batty.

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#109

Post by laurencerowe » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

pkamb wrote: post #64

The "ThinkPad USB Keyboard with TrackPoint" is the updated version of the OP's keyboard, with nice improvements such as the "big delete key" and slightly more modern build quality. Sold from ~2009 to ~2013. https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd005137 I use one of these full time at my desk. All TrackPoint, no mouse or trackpad. Lenovo is now unfortunately making only the "Compact" keyboard, with the same chic…

I have one of these, but I find that the plastic case flexes too much for comfort. (ThinkPad laptops are made of stronger stuff.)

There's an older, less compact version that doesn't flex. But I just wish Apple would offer their bluetooth keyboard with a Trackpoint...

Re: IBM is still making ThinkPad keyboards

#110

Post by yincrash » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #63

abtinf wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say swapped, I say its the correct placement. I use control much more frequently than fn, and its easier to reach it with my pinky on the thinkpad keyboard.

Don't use your pinky, use the meat of your hand to press the control key.

This is how I also use the control key, using the bone in my hand right where the pinky attaches to the hand. When ctrl is in the very corner, it's easy to press. When it's to the right of the fn (like on the apple keyboard I am currently using), it is significantly harder.