The Benefits of a Quiet Ego • Hacker News Board

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#101

Post by hosh » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

SmallBets wrote: post #94

codeshaman wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute" There is a paved road to clinical depression which starts with thoughts like these. I know it because I've taken it. Life stops having meaning if you take this too seriously - I mean, why do anything or achieve anything if we're just specs in time and space destined to die and be forgotten ? Besides, this doesn't necessarily imply humility.…

Balancing this line defines the human experience in my opinion. Objectively it is true, we are minute. But humanity is in the subjective making of meaning. That opportunity to make your own meaning is an incredible one if you choose to accept it. If you don't, it's not, and depression/nihilism results. And the funny thing is, those who hone that strongest sense of subjective meaning and well being in how they see the…

"That opportunity to make your own meaning is an incredible one if you choose to accept it. If you don't, it's not, and depression/nihilism results."

This is not true. There are meditative practices where you end up passing through depression and nihilism, but those are still forms of the ego trying make itself known, clinging to it's existence. This is similar to the Five Stages of Grief, where you are not yet at acceptance and equanimity.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#102

Post by hosh » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #87

codeshaman wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute" There is a paved road to clinical depression which starts with thoughts like these. I know it because I've taken it. Life stops having meaning if you take this too seriously - I mean, why do anything or achieve anything if we're just specs in time and space destined to die and be forgotten ? Besides, this doesn't necessarily imply humility.…

There's another type of depression that comes from always grasping for (money|acceptance|fame|success|whatever) and never fully attaining it. For people stuck on this treadmill, the long perspective can be a good reminder that none of it is really worth getting too bent out of shape about. On a cosmic timescale, all these things we worry about will be gone and forgotten in the blink of an eye. The best antidote to av…

Nihilism is still a form of depression.

Things are not permanent, yes. All things arise and pass, including nihilism and depression.

The folks I know who are truly in equanimity and live in the present, are present in the moment, are among the most vibrant and real people I know. When they laugh, they laugh, when they grieve, they grieve. They are fearless in their love, even knowing that all things will pass.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#103

Post by hosh » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:20 PM UTC

ken47 wrote: post #44

What's interesting in these comments is the egos clearly trying to defend themselves. Introspection begins with the question: do you own your ego or does it own you?

Heheheheh :-)

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#104

Post by hosh » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:31 PM UTC

hugh4 wrote: post #16

DougMerritt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're driving at. Beyond relaxation, ego-issues are what meditation has always been about, in multiple traditions if not all.

Given the smugness of many meditation enthusiasts I would worry that meditation would only work to make my ego louder .

@hugh4 thats a fair point and that does happen. It means the people involved are still working their way through things.

It's been my experience, that if I am practicing correctly, the louder the ego, the more intense the meditation. Meditation isn't about seeking out bliss; it's about letting go the things you cling to and seeking out the things you have aversion to. To allow things to arise and pass on their own. Sometimes the ego will get louder and more resistant as things near towards the breakthrough. (And this isn't a one-time event; I've lost count on the number of things that have come up during my practice).

Shame and embarrassment are often one of the first aversions that will come up when it comes time to work with the ego. These are things that you wished you could have said to the other person. These are things that you try to hide from other people, including yourself.

Smugness, the "I know something you don't", is also related to shame and embarrassment. This is the social cue and attitude that triggers the shame and insecurity reflex in other people, the shame of not being in the "in" on things. Now, granted, there are people who just go along and do their thing, and other people will still react to them as if they are smug. But I have met meditators who got into that "smug" phase -- hell, I've been through that phase before too. If you have good friends along this journey, they will help you through that smugness phase, and other difficulties along the way.

Lastly, working with the ego isn't really about defeating it or annihilating it. At it's core, it's the spiritualization of the ego. It's an incredible journey, and the specifics of that journey will be uniquely yours alone.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#105

Post by hosh » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:38 PM UTC

nathan_f77 wrote: post #86

I don't want to lose any anxiety about death. I'm hoping that organizations such as sens and calico can solve aging within my lifetime, and that I'll be able to afford the treatments. This goal definitely requires a strong ego. It takes pride to say that I deserve to live longer, instead of donating that money to save other people's lives. I've come to the conclusion that I would like to extend my life indefinitely,…

The anxiety of death isn't just about the death of the body. It is rooted deeper into the anxiety about change.

This is change happening at the microscopic scale all the way to the macroscopic scale: the death of a thought, the death of an emotion, the death of an idea, the death of an ideal, the death of a pet, the death of a person, the death of a group, the death of a startup, the death of a community, the death of a nation, the death of a civilization, the death of a star, the death of a galaxy, the death of the universe.

Real change does not happen without the death of the old.

Change is inherent. Changes happen with or without you. Resisting change makes from some incredible drama, but it doesn't have to be a struggle.

You could find longevity treatments so that your body does not die, but I think people will ultimately find the whole thing fruitless even if it works.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#106

Post by hosh » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:43 PM UTC

kmill wrote: post #30

leoh wrote: post #2

I really liked this — but how to cultivate a quiet ego?

The four facets described in the article are qualities that can be practiced, especially mindfulness and perspective taking. So long as the practice is done deliberately and evaluated honestly, I think a quiet ego is an unavoidable result. (A hint: look out for spasms of defensiveness or other hypocrisy in yourself, since these are exactly the parts which deserve more attention.[1] Don't miss your responses to notici…

@kmill on [1] Shame is a curious blend of aversion and ignorance. The dynamic of shame is such that it will actively hide things from you. This "hiding" results in an apparent invisibility (ignorance, that which you ignore).

It's possible to strip out the reaction of shame from confusion. At which point, it will feel like a mental block where things just don't have much clarity and things are not connecting, but you're no longer treating it as something to hide from others.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#107

Post by Profan » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:47 PM UTC

codeshaman wrote: post #81

icanhackit wrote: post #48

The gold is at the bottom: “The humble person is probably more aware and accepting of the fact that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute.” If there's one thing that will humble you it's trying to fathom the scale of the universe. You think a celebrity matters at these scales? But don't let it make you feel impotent - rejoice at the fact that you're alive, you exist and the world is fu…

"that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute" There is a paved road to clinical depression which starts with thoughts like these. I know it because I've taken it. Life stops having meaning if you take this too seriously - I mean, why do anything or achieve anything if we're just specs in time and space destined to die and be forgotten ? Besides, this doesn't necessarily imply humility.…

You can conclude that in the greater scale of things, you may not have much impact and still enjoy life.

Because being aware that your actions in the greater scale of things mean less, make it easier for you to appreciate the moment and what you can do for those who will be around when you are.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#108

Post by specialist » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:50 PM UTC

codeshaman wrote: post #81

icanhackit wrote: post #48

The gold is at the bottom: “The humble person is probably more aware and accepting of the fact that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute.” If there's one thing that will humble you it's trying to fathom the scale of the universe. You think a celebrity matters at these scales? But don't let it make you feel impotent - rejoice at the fact that you're alive, you exist and the world is fu…

"that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute" There is a paved road to clinical depression which starts with thoughts like these. I know it because I've taken it. Life stops having meaning if you take this too seriously - I mean, why do anything or achieve anything if we're just specs in time and space destined to die and be forgotten ? Besides, this doesn't necessarily imply humility.…

When nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do.

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#109

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 8:02 PM UTC

rprospero wrote: post #66

Kenji wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never really understood how the 'the universe is vast' argument is humbling. What does size have to do with importance? That's like saying a bar of gold has less value if you store it in a bigger room. There are many humbling things in the universe, like making an off-by-one error in C++ with more than a decade of programming experience, but the vastness of the universe is not one of those things.

I used to think the same thing, but it's not about putting the gold bar in a large empty room. Consider that the our galaxy has a mass of about 6×10^42 kg. The relative abundance of gold is 6×10^-10, so our galaxy has 4×10^33 kg of gold. The gold bar isn't in a large empty room. It's in a room filled with piles of gold, each more massive than the planet Mercury, for every person on Earth. Amongst those piles, would t…

[deleted]

Re: The Benefits of a Quiet Ego

#110

Post by roflchoppa » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 11:35 PM UTC

derrida wrote: post #55

roflchoppa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have zen mind beginners mind on my phone, read through it time to time, its a good book. http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/ZMBM-Lectures.html

Yes, this book! I don't recall reading a book with such frequency. I think once I read it cover to cover 3 days in a row - it's full of... I don't know! Also, I made this mistake too for awhile, the author of "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" is S.Suzuki, not D.T. Suzuki - different folks, both responsible for establishing Zen practices in the West.

I find that every time that I read it, i learn something new.