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Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

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Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#101

Post by exelius »

The qualities that make someone a successful entrepreneur often make them a poor student / employee. The same disregard of authority that makes people say "Why can't I do that? Who is going to stop me?" tends to lead you to more interesting conclusions than solving 40 problems from a math textbook.

But keep in mind that Harvard's goal isn't to recruit the best students; it's to create an environment where the well-connected can co-mingle with accomplished academics. This is why Harvard and other Ivy League schools admit "legacy" students: it's an explicit recognition that sometimes, who you know does matter. If you have a good mix of smart people, driven people, and politically savvy people from powerful families, they can help push each other to great heights.

I'm not so sure if the model works as well anymore, but also keep in mind that Harvard is almost 400 years old. It worked well for a long time.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#102

Post by Retric »

contergan wrote: post #53
ChuckMcM wrote: post #26

It is an interesting claim. I think Harvard would still reject him, he doesn't seem to fit in with what a "Harvard Man" is. The mistake is thinking that Harvard wants all the successful people in the world to go there, as far as I can tell they don't. Every private University recruits from their "tribe" whether it is 'quirky' at Reed or 'cosmopolitan' at Harvard, while not discriminating on race, religion, Etc they d…

>while not discriminating on race Affirmative action IS discrimination on race. AFAIK Harvard has been sued because of that not too long ago - I don't know the outcome though.

Not necessarily, if hypothetically silver people make up 20% of the population, but due to cultural bias in testing they make up 10% of the student body you could correct for that bias without discriminating.

For an actual example, rich people tend to look better on Harvard applications, but preform worse at Harvard than poor people. Adjusting for a bias in the application process would not be discrimination based on income.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#103

Post by gkanai »

Alibaba is indeed a force in China (and less-so globally) but the stock price is doing pretty poorly (down below IPO price.)

https://www.google.com/finance?q=baba&ei=fFT4VanDAdLisAHx9r7...

It's a bit weird to see him lauded at WEF when, say Twitter, which is also below IPO price, is in fire-fighting mode (without CEO, etc.)

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#104

Post by exelius »

alistairSH wrote: post #100
yuncun wrote: post #50

I grew up in a Chinese household, and I swear, Chinese people are way too obsessed with university branding. It's not even about quality of education, it's a cultural status phenomenon. If you take 10 mothers, the dick size of each one is directly proportional to the US News (yes, specifically US News) ranking of the university of her child. And if Timmy, some random kid in school, had a 2380 SAT, then as a fellow Ch…

It's not just Chinese-Americans. I live in Fairfax, VA and the entire county is bonkers over GPAs. It's to the point that >20% of my son's high school class had "better than perfect" GPAs (possible because honors/AP come with bonus points). Many of those same kids spent their afternoons being shuttled from enrichment program to enrichment program. Very little unscheduled time where they could just be kids. I question…

> I question the sanity of it all. I didn't have anywhere the level of structured activity as a teen and still managed to gain entry to a top-20 university. Presumably because I was successful in things I enjoyed, not things my parents thought were good application boosters.

It's much more difficult today. The US has unquestionably the best university system in the world, which means American students are competing with students from around the world for entrance into American schools. And of course, everyone only wants to go to the best schools, so they have all these structured activities as a resume-builder.

What I've read is that, ironically, kids with perfect SATs, 80 extracurriculars, who play the violin and speak 5 languages fluently are so common that they don't stand out anymore. The credential inflation has led schools to find alternate methods of evaluating candidates.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#105

Post by ErikAugust »

yuncun wrote: post #50

I grew up in a Chinese household, and I swear, Chinese people are way too obsessed with university branding. It's not even about quality of education, it's a cultural status phenomenon. If you take 10 mothers, the dick size of each one is directly proportional to the US News (yes, specifically US News) ranking of the university of her child. And if Timmy, some random kid in school, had a 2380 SAT, then as a fellow Ch…

But then again, look at the side effect - Jack Ma threw down so damn hard, and one has to guess a lot of it is out of spite for being rejected.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#106

Post by yuncun »

gyc wrote: post #97
yuncun wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh I don't take this for fact. My alternate theory is that schools aren't rejecting Asians for being Asian, but rather they are rejecting profiles that are common to ASians. How many apps do you think Cal receives every year with 4.3 GPA/2200 SAT, 4 yrs key club, no sports, and an essay about being nervous in a piano recital? If you get ten of those, and maybe one application from a kid in Inglewood with an 1850 SAT…

I certainly do think what you have described it's a well accepted stereotype, and it may well be true in your anecdotal experience, but I don't think there's been any real evidence that Asian applicants, as a whole, are nothing but test taking, piano/violin playing robots or are as a whole less well-rounded (by whatever measure) than white applicants. As for your own experience, prop 209 passed in California banned t…

Yeah, I dont want to accuse asian kids of being robots - that would be unfair, for example, to some non East Asian kids who dont have privileged upbringings. I just want to provide a counterpoint. And I was not aware that the AA ban was a California only prop, but that makes sense.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#107

Post by yuncun »

exelius wrote: post #104
alistairSH wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Chinese-Americans. I live in Fairfax, VA and the entire county is bonkers over GPAs. It's to the point that >20% of my son's high school class had "better than perfect" GPAs (possible because honors/AP come with bonus points). Many of those same kids spent their afternoons being shuttled from enrichment program to enrichment program. Very little unscheduled time where they could just be kids. I question…

> I question the sanity of it all. I didn't have anywhere the level of structured activity as a teen and still managed to gain entry to a top-20 university. Presumably because I was successful in things I enjoyed, not things my parents thought were good application boosters. It's much more difficult today. The US has unquestionably the best university system in the world, which means American students are competing w…

>What I've read is that, ironically, kids with perfect SATs, 80 extracurriculars, who play the violin and speak 5 languages fluently are so common that they don't stand out anymore.

Can't wait for the day when traditional parents catch on and we see the mass enrollment of Chinese kids in linebacker camps.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#108

Post by [deleted] »

stephencanon wrote: post #41
metaphorm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ones they end up taking are just as good I disagree with this sentiment. humans are individuals and unique. none is "just as good" as another. each is different. the college admissions process treats human beings as fungible commodities. like ears of corn at the grain silo. > The schools have a huge incentive to admit students who will succeed. They have no incentive to admit all such students. what does succee…

"Just as good" in the sense of "equally viable on the scale used by admissions", not in the capital-G sense of Good or in a hypothetical "equally valuable as human beings" sense. Yes, they are different, but those differences are often not relevant to the task set before the admissions committee.

[deleted]

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#109

Post by lsc »

doczoidberg wrote: post #95
lsc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But when you are studying it is the best time to start a company. What? Most people would argue that having knowledge of the field, experience and contacts; the sort of thing you get after working in a field for a while, is going to help more than the slightly increased physical stamina you have as a very young person.

Later you have a family and responsibility for your children. In college you are free and can take risks.

I certainly agree that children are a big responsibility, and take a lot of time... From what I've seen, though, of small businesses? Experience matters even more. I know a bunch of Entrepreneurs who are also parents. I don't personally understand how, I don't think I could handle being a parent even with an easy office job, but many entrepreneurs seem to be able to be a parent and run a business at the same time. I can't tell you how many of the informal meetings that are also dinner parties had children underfoot, but it's a reasonably large percentage.

Even if you do think that having a child will slow you down, being older doesn't automatically mean you will become a parent... the technology in that field is pretty good at this point.

Re: Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

#110

Post by yuncun »

Apocryphon wrote: post #91
xienze wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valid point, but there's something to be said for the Asian American community's obsession with education. Is it any surprise that they are the most successful minority group in America?

Self-selection bias. The Asian American community is immensely diverse and consists of many different immigrant (and native!) waves. Wealthy, well-educated Taiwanese semiconductor engineers from the '70s and '80s are not the same as LA Korean grocers are not the same as Vietnamese boat people are not the same as Hmong refugees are not the same as recent mainland Chinese nouveau riche are not the same as Nisei and San…

Yes, thanks for pointing out that important distinction.
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