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Bootstrap 4 alpha

blog.getbootstrap.com

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Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#101

Post by pyre »

xrstf wrote: post #93
pyre wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in part because it's always going to be the only Ruby dependency in any of my projects. The Javascript parser never found parity from what I know. Now that libsass (C or C++ implementation) has matured, the Ruby dependency is not necessary. I always resented Sass (vs. Less) a bit because of the Ruby dependency (in projects not using Ruby otherwise). Now that you can link against libsass, I don't feel like that's an…

Yeah I really love how I now not only need Node and npm, but also gcc to install/build a frickin' web project. Because f*ck the platform-independence we got with Node, who cares if a simple `npm install` takes 30 minutes to complete.

Nothing is requiring you to use these tools, but as web projects become more and more complex we develop tools to deal with the complexity. You could just as easily ignore all of this and use server-side rendering in your language of choice.

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#102

Post by coldtea »

Kiro wrote: post #99
coldtea wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can resize a top-level font size value (namely, the "html" node, e.g. to make it smaller for a mobile screen) and the rem-based fonts sizes for all your components change respectively.

Thanks. What about em?

Em (which we use to have for lots of years now IIRC), is the same thing, but instead of being responsive to the top level font size, they are responsive to their first sized parent.

So, inside a DIV with font-size: XXpx, em sized sub-elements will change size with respect to XX etc.

So to size them you have to target their px-sized-parents across your document.

Whereas rem sized items you control from a central single value: the font-size of the "html" element.

In this sense a page full of em-sized elements will behave the same as a page full of rem-sized elemements if the only pixel sized element in the page is the "html" node.

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#103

Post by curun1r »

StavrosK wrote: post #12
o_____________o wrote: post #9

They seem pretty confident about Sass; It seems outdated and clunky to me, in part because it's always going to be the only Ruby dependency in any of my projects. The Javascript parser never found parity from what I know. By contrast, PostCSS is faster and has massive adoption. Seems like the way forward. Anybody think this is wrong? > PostCSS can do the same work as preprocessors like Sass, Less, and Stylus. But Pos…

If I'm going to have to choose between Ruby and Node as a dependency for my project, I'll go with Ruby, and be unhappy regardless. Installing a whole programming language/framework and package manager just for a transpiler isn't my idea of fun.

I think a lot of people feel that way, but it's a false dichotomy based on what I've seen. The more real choice is between Node/Ruby and just Node.

When building a web application, you're basically forced to use JavaScript. It would be nice if this wasn't the case, and there are some transpilation tools that can basically get around that requirement, but it's almost always more painful to go that route. So if you're basically going to need the Node toolchain anyways for stuff like Babel and Webpack/Browserify, having your CSS abstraction library also use it means not needing an extra Ruby dependency. But there's not really an option to use only Ruby.

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#105

Post by [deleted] »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #63
bluetidepro wrote: post #22

One amazing thing to note is that in v3.3.5 (last stable) bootstrap.min.css was at ~123kb. The new 4.0.0 alpha bootstrap.min.css is at ~88kb. WOW. That's just amazing. Congrats to everyone who worked on this project. I'm always so impressed with the work done on it! Also, I want to add, I don't care where you land on the side of the debate whether to use Bootstrap or not, there is some very smart minds behind the pro…

>>> I don't care where you land on the side of the debate whether to use Bootstrap or not. I used to be totally against Bootstrap for a myriad of reasons. Then I got hired to build a fairly complex transactional application for a large health care organization under a tight schedule. Bootstrap allowed me to get a UI up and running super fast with all the components I needed, out of the box. It literally saved me hund…

[deleted]

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#106

Post by baby »

> Moved from Less to Sass

I felt like this would never happen

> Opt-in flexbox support is here

Awesome. That's the future :)

> Improved grid system

From a quick look, it still looks bloated for people who don't want to design with mobile in mind

> Reboot

they are using box-sizing: border-box so cheers to that

> Every plugin has been rewritten in ES6

nice!

> Improved documentation. We rewrote it all in Markdown

wow it looks really nice now

I've dropped Bootstrap a year ago in favor for Semantic-UI. I'm curious to see how this new version holds up.

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#107

Post by ssharp »

coldtea wrote: post #94
MichaelGG wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in a superposition. It is very cheap! Yet when people are selling the same thing for $4, it also looks like a lot, even though it isn't. I recently bought some themes and I had to make a conscious effort to simply ignore the price. In fact, I wish such sites had an option to hide all pricing info. (Same in mobile apps. $5 is a steal for a decent app/game, by any direct measure of value. But comparatively, $5…

> Yet when people are selling the same thing for $4, it also looks like a lot, even though it isn't. Here's your problem: you assume it's "the same thing". Just because the $4 thing looks OK doesn't mean it has the same code quality underneath, or that it wasn't stolen (as lots of "premium themes" are).

I'm sure many of us have spent and hour or two browsing theme, finally buying one, find out it's not going to work, and then start the process over again.

I've bought themes, both Bootstrap and others, that looked great, were dead cheap, and never got past the first open of the templates in Sublime Text. They were just too much of a disaster to work with.

Knowing that I'm getting top-notch quality is worth the $99 for me, if the themes fit what I'm trying to do. The amount of time saved not undoing someone else's mess is worth much more than $99.

That's not to say a cheaper theme isn't going to be good. I've also bought many that were quite good. I guess the difference here is that you can really trust what you're getting, and not have to rely on user reviews. I believe the Bootstrap people have earned enough trust where I know I'm getting a theme I can easily work with.

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#108

Post by leftnode »

JohnBooty wrote: post #72
merpnderp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, only $99 for officially supported Bootstrap themes. I love it.

More expensive than some others out there but the quality of other commercial Bootstrap themes tends to be pretty low: - Many themes out there are never updated. I remember some $15-ish Bootstrap themes for 3.1 that were never updated for 3.2, etc - Many Bootstrap themes out there are non-semantic div hell. Headers wrapped in tags with a class of "header" instead of simply using h1/h2/h3/etc tags. That kind of thing.…

Plus $99 is $0 for a company who wants a nice looking and well supported theme.

Re: Bootstrap 4 alpha

#110

Post by otis_inf »

tajano wrote: post #77
jasoncartwright wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$99 to have your site look like hundreds of others? No thanks.

$99 to roll out an internal dashboard in hours, so my engineers can focus on more important things? Yes please. If this is for your personal webpage, $99 might be too much. If this is for your business, and $99 can save you more than an hour or two of employee time, it's a steal.

There are much cheaper, well made templates available for bootstrap, e.g.: http://themeforest.net/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=bootstrap
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