Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 143 posts

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#101

Post by cscurmudgeon »

relix42 wrote: post #68

I've seen quite a few reactions to the Netflix unlimited PTO policy that are similar to the reactions to the new Maternity and Paternity policy. Many of these opinions are the likes of: * "I'm suspicious of this." * "No one takes any vacation at Netflix because of this." * "Unlimited == None" * "Peer pressure means that everyone works 52 weeks a year." * "Without a PTO policy you can't cash out unused vacation. This…

Plural of anecdote is not data unless you have data :)

Any Netflix-level stats?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#102

Post by aianus »

phil248 wrote: post #85
aianus wrote: post #83

I don't see why it's your employer's job to subsidize the birth of your children with paid maternity/paternity leave. Why not just pay everyone more and those who want children can use the extra to save up to take a year off work?

In most countries (that you'd want to raise a family in), it is the job of the government to ensure employers make allowances for child rearing - an activity some consider indispensable.

Why doesn't the government pay for the maternity/paternity leave? It doesn't make any sense that it's Netflix's responsibility.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#104

Post by mikeash »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #87
ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

Are you an AT&T (or other) customer? Confused about the meaning of the word "unlimited"? Just take it at face value: adj. not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent. Why must words always have a hidden, contradictory meaning?

At least with things like internet use, I can mostly just pretend it's truly unlimited. What I want to use when it's truly unlimited is typically within the actual limit.

But in this case, it clearly does not actually mean it. Oh, I have actually unlimited vacation at my Big Corporation job? I guess I'm never going in to work again! Except we can be pretty sure that 12 months of vacation each year is way beyond the secret limit.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#105

Post by mikeash »

CrankyFool wrote: post #91
mattbee wrote: post #39

"We want employees to have the flexibility and confidence to balance the needs of their growing families without worrying about work or finances ... Each employee ... works with their managers for coverage during their absences." So, the conversation could be just "Hey manager as per the new policy, I would like to be a full-time mum / dad for the next 12 months; will you arrange cover for me?" Is that right, no ques…

I'm a hiring manager at Netflix. If one of my employees told me "I'm going to take the year off, see you in a year," I'd basically go "OK, have a great time with your kids. Send us a picture every once in a while." And then I'd backfill them. And when they got back, I'd have an extra engineer. Chances are by that point I'll be looking to expand the team anyway.

How about if it was, "I just had a kid, so I'm going to stay home to raise them, and I'll be back in 18 years, assuming they get into college"?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#106

Post by mikeash »

relix42 wrote: post #68

I've seen quite a few reactions to the Netflix unlimited PTO policy that are similar to the reactions to the new Maternity and Paternity policy. Many of these opinions are the likes of: * "I'm suspicious of this." * "No one takes any vacation at Netflix because of this." * "Unlimited == None" * "Peer pressure means that everyone works 52 weeks a year." * "Without a PTO policy you can't cash out unused vacation. This…

Honest question: why don't people just leave for months at a time? Is it because everyone understands that "unlimited" is actually "one month a year, more or less" or whatever the actual amount is?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#107

Post by Domenic_S »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #76
abhorrence wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"not having PTO on the books" inherently makes it an anti-employee policy, since the employee no longer will receive anything upon leaving. In theory it could come out better for the employee, because they may get more vacation time than they would otherwise, but my experience has been that unlimited vacation means less vacation.

> since the employee no longer will receive anything upon leaving Even when it replaces non-reimbursable PTO (i.e they already would not recieve anything), it feels lame.

In California there's no such thing; Vacation and PTO is earned as it is accrued and must be paid upon separation. Sick leave specifically does not fall into that bucket, but lots of places use a single PTO bank as the combo sick/vaca bucket which makes it all payable.

(I mention CA because that's where Netflix is HQ'd)

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#108

Post by sokoloff »

macspoofing wrote: post #58
ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

Agreed. I'm a big believer in set vacation days. However I think untracked sick and personal days have merit. If you need to go to the dentist or stay home with your kid, do it. Similarly, I like core hours when you're expected to be in (crucial for meeting planning), but still have the flexibility to come in late or leave early.

I interned at Daimler-Benz in Germany. We had a 37.5 hour work week and "flex time" with core hours of 9:30-4:30. My boss made a big deal of explaining that, unless we were at a test track, that we were expected to abide both the core hours and 37.5/week. Core hours were 7hrs/day.

That meant we could work our 30 minutes flex per day in a totally flexible fashion...

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#109

Post by eevilspock »

This is a laudable policy and I truly respect Netflix for doing it. But the sad truth is that the people who need this most are those on minimum wage or less, or those treated as "contract workers" so their employer can keep an even bigger cut of profits (e.g. Uber).

In other words the Mathew Effect in our economy and society is further reinforced. The Mathew Effect is "the other invisible hand", except that it is insidious rather than virtuous. And unlike Adam Smith's invisible hand, it is most often ignored or trivialized, if not outright denied, by pure free-market adherents.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#110

Post by eevilspock »

mikeash wrote: post #106
relix42 wrote: post #68

I've seen quite a few reactions to the Netflix unlimited PTO policy that are similar to the reactions to the new Maternity and Paternity policy. Many of these opinions are the likes of: * "I'm suspicious of this." * "No one takes any vacation at Netflix because of this." * "Unlimited == None" * "Peer pressure means that everyone works 52 weeks a year." * "Without a PTO policy you can't cash out unused vacation. This…

Honest question: why don't people just leave for months at a time? Is it because everyone understands that "unlimited" is actually "one month a year, more or less" or whatever the actual amount is?

Is it possible that in healthy environments where people are valued and value each other as people they are capable of behaving ethically and responsibly?
Post reply on HN