Earlier quoted context omitted.
If only there was a way to submit both the original title and some kind of summary...
Then the moderators would just edit the title and summary as they see fit.
It's almost like the mods are complete tards!
How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
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Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#12Why was the title changed from the blog post's title ("How I nearly almost saved the Internet ...")?
HN moderators edit submission titles so that they match the submitted articles. Except in the cases where they arbitrarily change it to their liking. Like turning "laid off" into "let go."
We don't change titles arbitrarily and we certainly don't euphemize.
Turning "laid off" into "let go" sounds like nothing we'd do, and there's nothing like it in the logs, so I don't believe we did this.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#13Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN moderators edit submission titles so that they match the submitted articles. Except in the cases where they arbitrarily change it to their liking. Like turning "laid off" into "let go."
We don't change titles arbitrarily and we certainly don't euphemize. Turning "laid off" into "let go" sounds like nothing we'd do, and there's nothing like it in the logs, so I don't believe we did this.
IMO the newer title enforcement policies are worse than the old ones. The old ones might have been unreasonably rigid, but at least they were consistent. Right now the policy is "Keep the original title... unless we feel like it." The definition of "linkbait" here is so vague that it destroys any possibility for creative expression (remember the days when writing a good headline was an art?) and reinforces the notion that HN has no sense of humor.
That's without getting into the separate tendency that original user-submitted titles (whether or not it matches the article title) often capture the essence of what's actually interesting to the audience here. Subsequent edits then lose that association -- making it less likely that I (or other people) will click through. Linkbait, you say? That's the whole point, I say.
In this case: Sure, the article's original title was hyperbolic. But so what? It's hyperbolic to good effect, and gives a feel for the tone of the rest of the article.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don't change titles arbitrarily and we certainly don't euphemize. Turning "laid off" into "let go" sounds like nothing we'd do, and there's nothing like it in the logs, so I don't believe we did this.
IMO the newer title enforcement policies are worse than the old ones. The old ones might have been unreasonably rigid, but at least they were consistent. Right now the policy is "Keep the original title... unless we feel like it." The definition of "linkbait" here is so vague that it destroys any possibility for creative expression (remember the days when writing a good headline was an art?) and reinforces the notion…
HN's title policy hasn't changed since 2012. People sometimes mistakenly think we say to use the original title no matter what, but that's never been the case.
If we allowed linkbait in titles, the threads would mostly be about linkbait in titles. This effect is strong, reliable, and immediate. Therefore we don't allow linkbait in titles.
As for "unless we feel like it," nothing could be less true. The way we edit titles isn't algorithmic but it's at least semi-objective, and you'd be surprised at how meticulous we are. It's easy to defend in nearly any specific case (we make mistakes, of course, but that's not a policy), which is why when people complain about it, they tend to either kvetch vaguely or use inaccurate examples.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don't change titles arbitrarily and we certainly don't euphemize. Turning "laid off" into "let go" sounds like nothing we'd do, and there's nothing like it in the logs, so I don't believe we did this.
IMO the newer title enforcement policies are worse than the old ones. The old ones might have been unreasonably rigid, but at least they were consistent. Right now the policy is "Keep the original title... unless we feel like it." The definition of "linkbait" here is so vague that it destroys any possibility for creative expression (remember the days when writing a good headline was an art?) and reinforces the notion…
I wouldn't be interested in readinh an article called "I how I almost saved the Internet" as it sounds like the kinda stuff Wired or those tech blog/news sites publish.
This new title, however, is far more interesting and the article was fantastic.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO the newer title enforcement policies are worse than the old ones. The old ones might have been unreasonably rigid, but at least they were consistent. Right now the policy is "Keep the original title... unless we feel like it." The definition of "linkbait" here is so vague that it destroys any possibility for creative expression (remember the days when writing a good headline was an art?) and reinforces the notion…
HN's title policy hasn't changed since 2012. People sometimes mistakenly think we say to use the original title no matter what, but that's never been the case. If we allowed linkbait in titles, the threads would mostly be about linkbait in titles. This effect is strong, reliable, and immediate. Therefore we don't allow linkbait in titles. As for "unless we feel like it," nothing could be less true. The way we edit ti…
The written guidelines might not have changed, but the enforcement policies certainly have. So instead of complaining about linkbait in titles, people complain about changing the title. Always going to be something to complain about...
Anyway, I understand it's a hard thing to balance systematically. Titles aside, HN is still a much improved place under the "new regime". Thanks for your ongoing efforts with transparency and communication here.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN's title policy hasn't changed since 2012. People sometimes mistakenly think we say to use the original title no matter what, but that's never been the case. If we allowed linkbait in titles, the threads would mostly be about linkbait in titles. This effect is strong, reliable, and immediate. Therefore we don't allow linkbait in titles. As for "unless we feel like it," nothing could be less true. The way we edit ti…
The written guidelines might not have changed, but the enforcement policies certainly have. So instead of complaining about linkbait in titles, people complain about changing the title. Always going to be something to complain about... Anyway, I understand it's a hard thing to balance systematically. Titles aside, HN is still a much improved place under the "new regime". Thanks for your ongoing efforts with transpare…
> the enforcement policies certainly have
I have to think you're falling prey to sample bias here. I'm the one setting the enforcement policies and can assure you they haven't changed. I also don't see as many complaints about title changes as I used to; that may be because we started posting comments about particular edits, so it's easier for people to know what's going on.
The current thread is an exception, but it's ok if this stuff comes up occasionally and has a hearing.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO the newer title enforcement policies are worse than the old ones. The old ones might have been unreasonably rigid, but at least they were consistent. Right now the policy is "Keep the original title... unless we feel like it." The definition of "linkbait" here is so vague that it destroys any possibility for creative expression (remember the days when writing a good headline was an art?) and reinforces the notion…
I wouldn't be interested in readinh an article called "I how I almost saved the Internet" as it sounds like the kinda stuff Wired or those tech blog/news sites publish. This new title, however, is far more interesting and the article was fantastic.
> I wouldn't be interested in readinh an article called "I how I almost saved the Internet"
The old title was "how I nearly almost saved the Internet starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq"
That title gives enough detail to be interesting while still being a bit cheeky -- and the article itself is a bit cheeky. That cheekiness makes the article all the more fantastic, IMO.
The current title of "Finding a vulnerability in dnsmasq using afl-fuzz," while a factually accurate description, reads like a dry research paper.
Anyway, there are situations where changing the title is appropriate. I just don't think this was one of them.
Re: How I nearly almost saved the Internet, starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't be interested in readinh an article called "I how I almost saved the Internet" as it sounds like the kinda stuff Wired or those tech blog/news sites publish. This new title, however, is far more interesting and the article was fantastic.
> I wouldn't be interested in readinh an article called "I how I almost saved the Internet" The old title was "how I nearly almost saved the Internet starring afl-fuzz and dnsmasq " That title gives enough detail to be interesting while still being a bit cheeky -- and the article itself is a bit cheeky. That cheekiness makes the article all the more fantastic, IMO. The current title of "Finding a vulnerability in dns…
Ok, you've made a strong enough case that we'll set the title back. It isn't that linkbaity, because "nearly almost" is clearly self-deprecating, and it won't hurt the front page to let the author's cheerfulness through.