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MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

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Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#11

Post by undefined0 »

ilurk wrote: post #8
dimino wrote: post #4

Wait wait what? So I can send my (locally encrypted) CC info into an Enigma-enabled CC processor, and they can deduct an amount from my account without ever actually knowing my account info? Or more like I can send an encrypted list of passwords and they can tell me what the most common letter is in all the passwords without ever knowing any of the passwords? If these things aren't possible, can someone provide a use…

I don't know about CC processing, because... banks and regulations. But what fully homomorphic encryption allows you to is to perform arbitrary computations on encrypted data. So you send your encrypted data to a machine, it performs the computation, and sends it back to you still encrypted. Like the password list example you mentioned. What is cool about this is that is solves the problem with privacy in cloud compu…

I recall something similar to this recently on HN, http://www.zerodb.io/. Are they using homomorphic encryption here?

Would homomorphic encryption make it possible for cloud hosting to run a website without knowing the code that is being ran?

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#12

Post by ilurk »

jgrowl wrote: post #9

So if I am understanding correctly, this could compete with services like s3 and ec2. People can earn money by attaching their machines to the network (but they have to include a security deposit). Then they will collect fees from users for each request processed as well as a set fee for storage. The application developer will then use a provided scripting language (I am not sure if they actually write the applicatio…

I wouldn't say compete, but definitely complement. It would be used when dealing with sensitive data.

One problem is that it's slower. 100x slower.

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#13

Post by genericuser »

ilurk wrote: post #8
dimino wrote: post #4

Wait wait what? So I can send my (locally encrypted) CC info into an Enigma-enabled CC processor, and they can deduct an amount from my account without ever actually knowing my account info? Or more like I can send an encrypted list of passwords and they can tell me what the most common letter is in all the passwords without ever knowing any of the passwords? If these things aren't possible, can someone provide a use…

I don't know about CC processing, because... banks and regulations. But what fully homomorphic encryption allows you to is to perform arbitrary computations on encrypted data. So you send your encrypted data to a machine, it performs the computation, and sends it back to you still encrypted. Like the password list example you mentioned. What is cool about this is that is solves the problem with privacy in cloud compu…

This isn't fully homomorphic encryption though only somewhat homomorphic encryption. Addition and things that can be done with routines that only use addition would be able to be performed on the encrypted data, but other operations would not.

Or at least having skimmed the white paper, and having some background in this, that was my take away.

EDIT: Your explanation of homomorphic encryption is a good way to explain it at a level people can understand just what a breakthrough a workable implementation would be.

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#14

Post by kybernetikos »

jgrowl wrote: post #9

So if I am understanding correctly, this could compete with services like s3 and ec2. People can earn money by attaching their machines to the network (but they have to include a security deposit). Then they will collect fees from users for each request processed as well as a set fee for storage. The application developer will then use a provided scripting language (I am not sure if they actually write the applicatio…

Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounds like the service for distributing the work would have to be trusted (since with enough pieces of information you could decrypt the original data), which if true would remove the whole point of the system.

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#15

Post by deckar01 »

dimino wrote: post #4

Wait wait what? So I can send my (locally encrypted) CC info into an Enigma-enabled CC processor, and they can deduct an amount from my account without ever actually knowing my account info? Or more like I can send an encrypted list of passwords and they can tell me what the most common letter is in all the passwords without ever knowing any of the passwords? If these things aren't possible, can someone provide a use…

It doesn't seem like anything is actually encrypted, just randomly distributed amongst nodes in small enough pieces so as not to provide any useful information about the original data.

Since the paper states that all nodes must collude to recover (not decrypt) the data I would assume that the pieces are encrypted asymmetrically for each node to ensure a sufficiently powerful man in the middle (cough NSA) doesn't just reassemble the pieces.

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#16

Post by GuyZ »

jgrowl wrote: post #9

So if I am understanding correctly, this could compete with services like s3 and ec2. People can earn money by attaching their machines to the network (but they have to include a security deposit). Then they will collect fees from users for each request processed as well as a set fee for storage. The application developer will then use a provided scripting language (I am not sure if they actually write the applicatio…

(I'm one of the creators of this project)

I don't believe centralized/public clouds will disappear anytime soon. However, there simply aren't any privacy-preserving alternatives out there. We're hoping to change that.

Also, your description is accurate. We'll be releasing our code and some dev-friendly documentation for the beta soon. You're welcome to sign up at http://enigma.media.mit.edu.

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#17

Post by zekevermillion »

jgrowl wrote: post #10
zekevermillion wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still waiting for a distributed program that stores its own private bitcoin wallet keys using homomorphic encryption to keep the keys secret. Can Enigma do that? Doesn't sound like it's quite there yet, but the direction is very interesting.

From the whitepaper: 8.10 Bitcoin Wallet 1. Decentralized private key generation – Multiple Enigma nodes locally create a segment of the key, whereas the full key is only ever assembled by the user. No trail of evidence is left anywhere. 2. Decentralized transaction signing – Transactions signed without ever exposing the private key or leaving a trail. 3. Decentralized controls - Set spending limits, multi-sig, CHECK…

OK, so the secret can be generated in decentralized fashion. From reading this, I can't tell if the secret is only obtainable at the client, or does this mean that the enigma network could in effect store the pieces of the key and re-assemble it based on some pre-agreed computation that is not subject to modification by any particular user?

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#18

Post by GuyZ »

deckar01 wrote: post #15
dimino wrote: post #4

Wait wait what? So I can send my (locally encrypted) CC info into an Enigma-enabled CC processor, and they can deduct an amount from my account without ever actually knowing my account info? Or more like I can send an encrypted list of passwords and they can tell me what the most common letter is in all the passwords without ever knowing any of the passwords? If these things aren't possible, can someone provide a use…

It doesn't seem like anything is actually encrypted, just randomly distributed amongst nodes in small enough pieces so as not to provide any useful information about the original data. Since the paper states that all nodes must collude to recover (not decrypt) the data I would assume that the pieces are encrypted asymmetrically for each node to ensure a sufficiently powerful man in the middle (cough NSA) doesn't just…

This is actually a form of encryption (See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_cryptosystem). It is encrypted in the sense that combining any number of pieces smaller than the defined threshold won't leak even a single bit of information.

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#19

Post by michwill »

undefined0 wrote: post #11
ilurk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about CC processing, because... banks and regulations. But what fully homomorphic encryption allows you to is to perform arbitrary computations on encrypted data. So you send your encrypted data to a machine, it performs the computation, and sends it back to you still encrypted. Like the password list example you mentioned. What is cool about this is that is solves the problem with privacy in cloud compu…

I recall something similar to this recently on HN, http://www.zerodb.io/ . Are they using homomorphic encryption here? Would homomorphic encryption make it possible for cloud hosting to run a website without knowing the code that is being ran?

ZeroDB here. We're not homomorphic, and it is possible to make a cloud hosting you're talking about w/o homomorphic encryption.

But if you are to perform heavy computing on server side, you have to be homomorphic. Or other amazing opportunities like decentralized key management, content tokenization (DRM) etc appear from this homomorphic work (even if the speed is 100 times slower than unencrypted)

Re: MIT's Bitcoin-Inspired 'Enigma' Lets Computers Mine Encrypted Data

#20

Post by GuyZ »

kybernetikos wrote: post #14
jgrowl wrote: post #9

So if I am understanding correctly, this could compete with services like s3 and ec2. People can earn money by attaching their machines to the network (but they have to include a security deposit). Then they will collect fees from users for each request processed as well as a set fee for storage. The application developer will then use a provided scripting language (I am not sure if they actually write the applicatio…

Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounds like the service for distributing the work would have to be trusted (since with enough pieces of information you could decrypt the original data), which if true would remove the whole point of the system.

The idea is for the owner of the data to share her own data into the network. There could be many owners for different pieces of data.
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