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Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

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Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#11
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well M-expressions to be more precise. Actually if you ask some they'll tell you that Mathematica is the only Lisp that implemented them.

Or M-LISP. Or Logo for that matter (loosely).

Yeah, I don't really believe the claim that it's the only one, it's probably fair to say it's the most widely used though.

Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#14
post #13

"I wonder which will become self-aware first -- Wolfram Alpha, or Stephen Wolfram."

Attributed to Casey Muratori by http://chrishecker.com/Kurt_G%C3%B6del_is_Laughing_His_Ass_O... -

“Does anyone want to bet as to which will gain self-awareness first: Wolfram Alpha or Wolfram, Stephen?”

Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#15
post #8

Seems like a good example of technical people placing too much importance on a technical decision. It seems clear Lisp would have been a perfectly fine choice, as would a number of other languages. It also seems unlikely the world (or even Mathematica) would be dramatically different for it. I wish more "X is better than Y because of Z" discussions would admit aesthetics were an important factor. Instead we end up wi…

To me it sounds more like NIH syndrome. Wolfram was young, smart, cocky, and didn't really know much about computation when he started - but was convinced he could do a better job if he started from scratch.

> Wolfram was young, smart, cocky

He remains two of those things to this day. I have no doubt Wolfram is legitimately a genius (despite his arrogance and tendency to take credit for other people's inventions) and I adore Mathematica as it is, but I can't help but wonder how much better it would be if Wolfram's personality was less... abrasive.

Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#16
post #7

Isn't Mathematica very Lispy? It looks like R-expressions.

Well M-expressions to be more precise. Actually if you ask some they'll tell you that Mathematica is the only Lisp that implemented them.

And with good cause, I think. Mathematica syntax (both the verbose form and with the various syntactical sugar) is immensely more readable to the average person than Lisp. Of course, this could have been done on top of Lisp anyways (and wouldn't that be nice?)

Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#17
Wolfram has always seemed to me to have the biggest case of "Not Invented Here" syndrome I've ever heard of. I mean, not only did he have to make his new language, new search engine, etc. He even tried to make a new kind of science...

If that's not extreme NIH, I don't know what is.

Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well M-expressions to be more precise. Actually if you ask some they'll tell you that Mathematica is the only Lisp that implemented them.

And with good cause, I think. Mathematica syntax (both the verbose form and with the various syntactical sugar) is immensely more readable to the average person than Lisp. Of course, this could have been done on top of Lisp anyways (and wouldn't that be nice?)

Surprise, Macsyma, which is written in Lisp has that syntax. Macsyma is the earlier computer algebra system, which Kent Pitman mentioned in that post. He also mentions that Wolfram knew Macsyma.

Example:

    applysymmetry(exp,opdum,symtype):=block(
      [getdum:get(opdum,symtype),piece,inflag:true,partswitch:true],
      if getdum=false then return(exp),
      subst(lambda([[arglist]],
                   apply('aplsym1,append(getdum,[arglist,opdum]))),
            opdum,exp))$

If you know Lisp, you will recognize typical constructs like IF, RETURN, SUBST, LAMBDA, APPLY, APPEND, ...

Re: Why Wolfram Mathematica did not use Lisp (2002)

#20
post #13

"I wonder which will become self-aware first -- Wolfram Alpha, or Stephen Wolfram."

I once went to a talk by Wolfram to an audience of academics which he finished by saying that if he managed to find the theory of everything (which he seemed to think was a possibility), he probably wouldn't bother telling people, since theoretical physicists wouldn't understand it.
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