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Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

nytimes.com

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Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#11

Post by earljwagner »

I think of my work in terms of seeing unexplored areas to go with software (e.g. support self-insight or personal growth). I prefer to work with people having a similar perspective and aesthetic sensibility. A lot of the examples in this article seemed absurd to me - fit or misfit because of your preferred sports teams?

As a Myers-Briggs "intuitive", maybe I "fit" with people having a similar outlook and values, while "sensory" folks fit with people who've had similar experiences and hobbies. I wonder if similarities in this dimension dominates the other MBTI dimensions in accounting for fit (e.g. introversion/extroversion, thinking/feeling, perceiving/judging).

Any research on this? Seems like a worthwhile question.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#12

Post by lordnacho »

EliRivers wrote: post #5
DevPad wrote: post #2

How about remote teams? At previous startup we had guys from: Germany, Russia, US, Romania, Brasil, Ukraine, Philippines. Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker (innovative, open-minded).

Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker. Why did you put "cultural fit" in quotes? Your criterion is just as poorly defined as everyone else's "cultural fit" criteria and, just like theirs, acts as a way to simply exclude people because they're not like you.

"Be a hacker" is not cultural though. It's skill.

He's saying they are just using skill as a criterion.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#13

Post by dataker »

For most high-exec types, cultural fit is one of the only excuses to justify their position and achievements.

The technical barriers for these jobs are very small, but as corporations have a self-reinforcing cronyist culture, "acting and being part of the wolves" is the most important thing.

Not only will qualified people not get a chance, but many sectors end up collapsing or getting stuck. For example, for a decent "banker", it wouldnt be hard to predict events in 07-09.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#14

Post by lordnacho »

The examples in the articles are obviously bad choices though. Cultural fit should be about work behaviour, not what you do in your free time. Whether someone likes sports or whiskey shouldn't matter.

Whether they prefer to have large meetings vs one-on-ones is the kind of thing you want to know, but it's probably not a great idea to prioritize that over actual ability.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#15

Post by EliRivers »

earljwagner wrote: post #11

I think of my work in terms of seeing unexplored areas to go with software (e.g. support self-insight or personal growth). I prefer to work with people having a similar perspective and aesthetic sensibility. A lot of the examples in this article seemed absurd to me - fit or misfit because of your preferred sports teams? As a Myers-Briggs "intuitive", maybe I "fit" with people having a similar outlook and values, whil…

When interviewing, one of things I deliberately look for is people who are not like the current team. People who are not a "cultural fit", whatever that even means.

I need people with different ideas, different experience; people who will approach the problems in a different way, fill in the blind spots and vulnerabilities the current team has.

There's a trade-off to be made, sure, but professional adults can work together with people that are not the same as them, and a team composed of people who think differently and have different approaches and different experience is far more advantageous than a team of people who all think and work in the same way.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#16

Post by lordnacho »

dataker wrote: post #13

For most high-exec types, cultural fit is one of the only excuses to justify their position and achievements. The technical barriers for these jobs are very small, but as corporations have a self-reinforcing cronyist culture, "acting and being part of the wolves" is the most important thing. Not only will qualified people not get a chance, but many sectors end up collapsing or getting stuck. For example, for a decent…

This is exactly right. Corporations are pyramids, where each rung feeds the higher rung. Consequently, there are plenty of people with the right experience for each promotion. Who gets that promotion? Well, since it generally doesn't matter, it's decided politically.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#18

Post by EliRivers »

lordnacho wrote: post #12
EliRivers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker. Why did you put "cultural fit" in quotes? Your criterion is just as poorly defined as everyone else's "cultural fit" criteria and, just like theirs, acts as a way to simply exclude people because they're not like you.

"Be a hacker" is not cultural though. It's skill. He's saying they are just using skill as a criterion.

WTF are you talking about? "Hacker" is entirely cultural.

It was in its infancy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture) ) and it is now. Part of it's current culture is the pretence that it's all about skill; it's not. The completely lacking in skill won't get recognised as part of it, but it's attitude and style that buys admission to that club.

These days, software places that are looking for "hackers" generally mean they're looking for inexperienced youngsters who have dabbled in a handful of currently trending web frameworks, but have "Agile" written on the crumpled t-shirt they will wear to the interview. The world's finest software engineer could turn up but because that person has decades of experience, plans their software before they write it, children in college and a liking for going home at five, the world's finest software engineer will be rejected on grounds of "culture fit". HN is heaving with people who have immersion baptised themselves in this particular kool-aid.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#19

Post by chapium »

raindev wrote: post #8
DevPad wrote: post #2

How about remote teams? At previous startup we had guys from: Germany, Russia, US, Romania, Brasil, Ukraine, Philippines. Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker (innovative, open-minded).

"Guys" is an exclusive label.

It all depends on context. "I'm going to go hang out with the guys." yes, exclusive. "Hey guys, I'm going to work." not exclusive. Try focusing on the meaning being conveyed and not the glyphs representing it.
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