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Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

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Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#11

Great, this article's title suggests that they've discovered a selective pressure on the Dutch to be taller, but then says they have no idea what that selective pressure might be. At the very end of the article, even: > Dr. Govindaraju said it was too early to speculate on why some populations are evolving in different ways. Wtf?

[deleted]

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#12
post #7
post #5

Is there any other possible reason for such a thing?

Genetic drift? Sexual selection? Excess height as a spandrel that comes with improved nutrition?

Yea but better nutrition is enjoyed by most first world countries.

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#14
I have wondered if epigenetic effects (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics#Transgenerational_...) from the 1944 Dutch famine (https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Dutch_famine_of_1944) could have resulted in a substantial positive impact on Dutch height for several generations following the famine.

It seems likely that eastern Europeans suffered much more extreme privations than the Dutch did in this time period, but maybe they also saw a similar effect, it's just less noticeable because those populations were a couple of inches shorter on average anyway. The notable thing about the Dutch is not that recent generations are taller than their forebears -- that's probably true for most all European populations. The really notable thing is that they're also taller than other northwestern populations like the Danes.

The natural selection argument is probably a better and certainly a simpler explanation, though.

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#16
post #6
post #5

Is there any other possible reason for such a thing?

Possibly diet. Obviously it's anecdotal but all of the Dutch people I know consume far more dairy products than those from the UK. Edit: Turns out the Dutch are the third biggest consumers of milk per capita in the world[0], looking at the list of "tallest" countries on wikipedia[1], there seems to be a great deal of overlap at the top of the two lists. I wonder if a secondary factor could also be related to vitamin…

Over 2,000 years ago Julius Caesar described the people that lived where The Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany are today.

> They do not live much on corn, but subsist for the most part on milk and flesh, and are much [engaged] in hunting; which circumstance must, by the nature of their food, and by their daily exercise and the freedom of their life (for having from boyhood been accustomed to no employment, or discipline, they do nothing at all contrary to their inclination), both promote their strength and render them men of vast stature of body.

http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.4.4.html

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#17
post #13

A Dutch friend tells me it's all the hormones Dutch farmers use. Anybody know if that's the case?

Same with S Korea. New generation kids are significantly taller than just 1-2 generations ago.

I suspect that the reason South Korean children are taller than they were two generations ago is that two generations ago not having enough food to eat was a real problem in South Korea.

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#18

A Dutch friend tells me it's all the hormones Dutch farmers use. Anybody know if that's the case?

Unlikely. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_hormone_controversy:

In the 1990s, in the midst of the mad cow disease crisis, the European Union banned the import of meat that contained artificial beef hormones. […] Until 1980, the use of growth hormones, both endogenous and exogenous, was completely prohibited in (as noted above) Italy, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Greece.

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#19

A Dutch friend tells me it's all the hormones Dutch farmers use. Anybody know if that's the case?

Sounds like a monkey sandwich story to me.

I have never heard of a monkey sandwich story but I would really like to hear one.

Re: Natural Selection May Help Account for Dutch Height Advantage

#20
I happen to be 2 m (6'6) tall and French-Irish. When I used to go out with a Scandinavian social club in California, we were always far taller than everyone else. More than 0.25 m difference in height makes for difficult conversation, so there's a tendency to only talk to other sized people. I also know a British guy that is 2.3 m tall and a Stanford chick whos 2.5 m (how does one get a date if you're ungainly tall?). Perhaps in a millennia, humans will be 4 m tall on average?
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