Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#11

Post by screwedup » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:16 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

I don't think PaulHoule was saying it isn't a racist symbol.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#12

Post by knodi123 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

you seriously think a civil war game, or a historical documentary, are practicing dog whistle politics?

Just because that's a thing that occurs doesn't mean that it's everywhere it could possibly be.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#13

Post by knodi123 » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

zxcvcxz wrote: post #8

Hopefully they'll ban all songs that contain blatantly racist lyrics.

Including any songs that contain nigger or nigga or niggaz? Well, it's a sad violation of the first amendment, but I don't think there's any other way to stop racists from killing people.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#14

Post by markbnj » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

Completely silly. I would like to see, just once in my life, our population respond to a tragedy with calm deliberation rather than knee-jerk reactionary tilting at windmills.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#15

Post by zxcvcxz » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

And many see the swastika as a Buddhist symbol while others see it as a Nazi symbol.

But of course, you're just here to push a political agenda and paint anyone who doesn't agree as either stupid or racist.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#16

Post by andreyf » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

screwedup wrote: post #6

ryanobjc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really not unlike banning the nazi flag post WWII germany. The parallels are apt. Perhaps in time, the flag will lose its emotional charge but that isn't the case now.

I'm very comfortable with games that display the Nazi flag, why shouldn't the Confederate flag be different?

Are you in post WWII Germany? The justifications for Apple's or Europe's limits on speech are wholly unaffected by any one person's feeling comfortable with it.

That reasoning aside, I think that ignoring or changing parts of history that some find uncomfortable, even if they evoke strong emotions, seems like a dangerous game. It seems wiser to draw the line at "all speech ought to be protected from those who have power to control it" and then make thoroughly thought-through exceptions with well-grounded and regularly reevaluated justifications.

edit: markbnj makes a good point, that whatever the justification for Germany's limits on free speech are, they do not apply to a game trying to reenact historical events https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9779899

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#17

Post by Jgrubb » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

Not sure if you read the article or not, but you are correct that this is still a racist symbol to many, however if it also happens to be a piece of actual history. It's usage outside of something history related is pretty much always the former, but it's usage in this particular game is clearly the latter.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#18

Post by fixermark » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:19 PM UTC

kdamken wrote: post #7

This is rather silly. What's next? Are we going to change the uniforms of Nazis in World War 2 games? Start putting "CENSORED" watermarks over the confederate flag in civil war themed movies? The flag shouldn't be flying on state buildings, but leave historically themed art and media out of this.

You might not be familiar with the German videogame marketplace.

http://www.destructoid.com/see-how-wolfenstein-the-new-order...

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#19

Post by jjtheblunt » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

Does the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution not "guarantee" to individual citizens freedom of speech and freedom of press, so that individuals (not collections of them such as states) can say "confederate flag" and display the confederate flag as much as they want? I mean, if they are doing so to be hateful, they can do that, and, in doing so, they declare themselves unsavory, to say the least.

Re: Apple removes Civil War game from App Store until it removes Confederate flag

#20

Post by ralmidani » Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

This seems stupid to me. It is one thing for a state government to fly that flag, it is a different thing for a private individual. (i.e. it is different when the police kill people and held unaccountable then when it is some nutjob.) I think games, documentaries and such are not showing the flag to be racist.

While YOU may not see the flag as a racist symbol, I assure you that others do. The general term is called dog-whistle politics. Eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

He's not saying it's not a racist symbol. He's saying games and movies depicting it are not racist.