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How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

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Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#11
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One example of impressive fansubbing i have seen was where the subs were color matched to the speakers hair, and contained cultural/historic/contextual info.

Matching the speakers' hair is useful, but too often notes end up as showing off. A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language, not explain every reference.

> A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language

That's a difficult line to walk, you can do lighter adaption but require more cultural context (which translates into notes to explain said context to those unaware of it) or heavier adaptation removing the cultural context. Depending on the show, the latter may not make any sense, or require significantly more investment to get an acceptable result, and it divorces the translation from the original to a much higher degree.

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matching the speakers' hair is useful, but too often notes end up as showing off. A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language, not explain every reference.

> A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language It's my feeling that this should include what would be automatically understood by natives. I have never found this to go too far - I have always wanted more local context.

> I have never found this to go too far - I have always wanted more local context.

I really dig for those fansubs that explain the context. Some even go extra mile by adding text frames in the video explaining why the speaker said that and what this line actually means.

We tend to miss a lot if we only have a literal translation of what the speaker have said - like a joke hidden in plain words. I remember one anime where the hero's name if written in another way meant pervert - I would have never understood why other characters used to get horrified(in a comic way) upon hearing his name for the first time if the sub had not explained it.

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#13
"""piracy is really a last resort for when they really love the content but can’t get it any other way."""

This is very true and a pretty strong indicator that you are leaving money on the table by ignoring a customer segment. I've reduced my media consumption a ton but know enough people who stream TV shows (technically not illegal) they'd gladly pay for. The problem: they want to watch them in the original language (typically English) and when they are released.

Incidentally that's also a segment that is willing and able to pay for that (for starters knowing the language means they are usually better educated than average which c.p. means a higher income) but the problem is it's just not available to buy. Pay TV is sloooowly getting there (I could watch GoT instantly on a pay TV channel for example)

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matching the speakers' hair is useful, but too often notes end up as showing off. A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language, not explain every reference.

> A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language It's my feeling that this should include what would be automatically understood by natives. I have never found this to go too far - I have always wanted more local context.

I found the infamous *TL note: Yuki means Snow very offputting. (It came in the middle of a very deliberately sparse, emotional scene - simple scenery (mostly snow IIRC) and very little dialogue).

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#15
I enjoy watching various anime but am by no means into Japanese culture, nor the American culture that is into Japanese culture. However, when I was first introduced to anime by a friend (minus Spirited Away) which was Naruto, I was introduced to the English-subbed versions even though English dubs were available. After watching a few episodes of listening to Japanese and reading the subs, I thought it would be a good idea to skip the effort of reading and watch the English dubbed version instead.

That was a horrible experience. The English dubbed voices seemed to lack passion or say things in the wrong tones (or just be monotone!). Blue Gender immediately comes to mind as another painful English dub experience.

So, that is how my teenage self wound up pirating a lot of anime: because the fansubbing was extremely good and I could pick up on Japanese vocal intonation. I could actually tell what was a joke, and what was anger, instead of wondering when someone would have feelings at all in their English monotone!

In the case of Ergo Proxy, the additional notes in the fansubbing really helped understand the bigger dialogue. Without it I probably would not have held that particular show in has high of a regard.

The only consistent exception to the poor English dubs has been Miyazaki. Heck, Liam Neeson was a voice in Ponyo!

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#16
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matching the speakers' hair is useful, but too often notes end up as showing off. A good translation is supposed to replicate the experience of watching something in its original language, not explain every reference.

Perhaps, but sometimes a show is just that much more impressive if you understand more of what's going on. The show 'Ergo Proxy' comes to mind. It's got a mysterious plot and some throw off episodes that will really mess you up, but aside from that it's also got loads of references to history and philosophy that I would just not understand because I haven't studied either. The fansub group had small blobs of explanat…

Elfen Lied was one of the first fansubs I watched, and it was a good example of translators going too far. The version I watched used different text colors for the alien characters depending on whether their human (mostly sane) or alien(instinct-driven, homicidal) personality was in control. If you remember, there's a character later on who spent most of her life locked up in the basement under a government facility, so more than once I found myself disagreeing with the translator's assessment of whether or not she was supposed to be "sane" in any given scene.

And then there's the notorious scene in Code Geass where two characters are playing chess, and over 50% of the screen is filled with translator's notes about how that's not actually a valid move (when it's clearly an error on the animator's end of things).

Many, many fansub groups are just plain unprofessional in every sense of the word.

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#19
post #15

I enjoy watching various anime but am by no means into Japanese culture, nor the American culture that is into Japanese culture. However, when I was first introduced to anime by a friend (minus Spirited Away) which was Naruto, I was introduced to the English-subbed versions even though English dubs were available. After watching a few episodes of listening to Japanese and reading the subs, I thought it would be a goo…

I agree some of english dubbing in anime is very poor. I normally watch subbed versions of anime. Though, I like the orignal English dubbing and music (Funimation version) of DragonBall Z more than the Japanese version :)

Re: How American Fans Pirated Japanese Cartoons into Careers

#20
>“Now it’s all about who has the fanciest typesettings and who has the wackiest karaoke lyrics for the opening songs,” Nadelman pointed out. “They just want to have bragging rights to say this is their version of it, even though the same show will be available on Crunchyroll, or Funimation, or a number of other streaming sites.”

It is true that many fansubbing groups now (much like in the old days) compete on who has the flashiest karaoke and typesetting, but I'd say it's unwise to completely fob off fansubbing in 2015.

The article goes into more detail on this, but video quality and encoding is generally still better on fansubs than on streaming sites, largely because anime fansubs tend to be on the cutting edge of video encoding. MKV has been the container of choice for years, 10-bit colour has been around for a few years now, h264 encoding even longer. You could argue whether this justifies the illegal fansub, but there are people who will give this as a justification.

There are still arguments over translation. Crunchyroll and Funimation have their "good" and not-so-"good" translators. The question is - do you keep it literal (perhaps keeping some Japanese idioms and ideas intact, causing confusion for some in your Western audience and possibly breaking immersion somewhat) or go more liberal (translate some concepts into Western concepts, such that it may not literally match the original script word for word, but the idea will be the same). I tend to go for the liberal side because I want to be entertained, not frustrated by concepts I know nothing of, but as you could imagine the arguments are fraught. Comedy is an especially difficult genre to translate successfully.

Also, America is still provided for better than other English-speaking territories in this regard. What's most annoying to me is when a company like Funimation picks up English-speaking streaming rights for a show, then restricts that to US/Canada. UK/Ireland/Australia often gets left out in the cold with legal streaming like this.

I'm kind of happy that fansubs are still around to keep the legal sites on their toes.

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