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An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

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Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#11

Post by odiroot »

ido wrote: post #5
wahsd wrote: post #2

There are some really interesting things on that map. The apparent huge influx of people into France and the UK is one. Another amazing thing is that after what I think is around $1 trillion dollars spent in former east German states post reunification, the outflow of people still looks to be strong.

Isn't a lot of it due to greater urbanization? While the rural areas lose people, not only does Berlin grow but also Leipzig, Dresden, Magdeburg and Rostock. I think the map show no major city in eastern Germany actually losing population.

Yep, everyone here knows Berlin is getting overwhelmed really fast. There's a word on the streets Dresden is next, then Leipzig.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#12

Post by Terr_ »

s_dev wrote: post #7

Ireland is interesting. It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 up until the late 1980s and now is the odd man out in Europe as being one of the few countries that can grow its population. Ireland has had a recession since 2008 but ended last year with a return to slow growth and during this time had high unemployment and high emigration. It's expected to be the fastest growing European e…

> It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845

That reminds me of a section from the book "1493", discussing the introduction of the potato to Europe and later the potato-famine:

> Today Ireland has the melancholy distinction of being the only nation in Europe, and perhaps the world, to have fewer people within the same boundaries than it did more than 150 years ago.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#13

Post by solve »

Shows percent change... but not the magnitude of the change.

Seeing a map that combined both percentage and magnitude to compute the colors (perhaps similar to the Tf–idf calculation?) would be much more interpretable. 50% of people leaving the middle of a forest doesn't really tell me much, versus 50% change in a dense city.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#14

Post by solve »

Someone wrote: post #10
wahsd wrote: post #2

There are some really interesting things on that map. The apparent huge influx of people into France and the UK is one. Another amazing thing is that after what I think is around $1 trillion dollars spent in former east German states post reunification, the outflow of people still looks to be strong.

"still looks to be strong" As you know, you can't tell that from this picture. An area that has had large annual population decreases for the first 5 years, and slower growth for the second 5 will still show up as red. Also, quite a bit of the population decreases in the countryside will be of people moving into the cities. Because of differences in population density, that can give the impression of population decli…

Exactly what I was saying. The map is terribly hard to interpret unless you can make a rough guess of how many people live in each tiny segment.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#16

Post by s_dev »

Terr_ wrote: post #12
s_dev wrote: post #7

Ireland is interesting. It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 up until the late 1980s and now is the odd man out in Europe as being one of the few countries that can grow its population. Ireland has had a recession since 2008 but ended last year with a return to slow growth and during this time had high unemployment and high emigration. It's expected to be the fastest growing European e…

> It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 That reminds me of a section from the book "1493", discussing the introduction of the potato to Europe and later the potato-famine: > Today Ireland has the melancholy distinction of being the only nation in Europe, and perhaps the world, to have fewer people within the same boundaries than it did more than 150 years ago.

The Famine made Ireland "Irish" in the sense that we understand it today. The famine caused people to become more pious in their Catholicism, even more impoverished and detest the British even more than what they previously did. It probably was the single most important factor in shaping modern Ireland.

Many here are probably aware that Ireland had in 1845 a population of 9 Million but only 6 Million today (all Island pop). The entirety of the UK at the time had a population of 22 Million people. This means the Britain (Scotland, England and Wales) was only 25% bigger than Ireland at that time which is completely different today with the UK having >60 Million people and Ireland (Republic) having 4.5 Million. Ireland had a similar agricultural output compared to Britain which is at least three time larger.

If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million. However it did happen and alternate realities are hard to predict.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#17

Post by notNow »

Anyone have any idea why in the countries most hit by the recession (Spain, Italy and Greece to name a few) there's striking divergence between population growth specifically decreasing Greece on one hand while increasing in Italy and Spain in general despite the three of them share the same dynamics at play and especially Greece and Spain?

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#18

Post by kryptiskt »

s_dev wrote: post #16
Terr_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 That reminds me of a section from the book "1493", discussing the introduction of the potato to Europe and later the potato-famine: > Today Ireland has the melancholy distinction of being the only nation in Europe, and perhaps the world, to have fewer people within the same boundaries than it did more than 150 years ago.

The Famine made Ireland "Irish" in the sense that we understand it today. The famine caused people to become more pious in their Catholicism, even more impoverished and detest the British even more than what they previously did. It probably was the single most important factor in shaping modern Ireland. Many here are probably aware that Ireland had in 1845 a population of 9 Million but only 6 Million today (all Islan…

> If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million. However it did happen and alternate realities are hard to predict.

In a way it has, there are that many with Irish ancestry in America, not strange as emigration there cost Ireland much more people than the famine.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#19

Post by merb »

Someone wrote: post #10
wahsd wrote: post #2

There are some really interesting things on that map. The apparent huge influx of people into France and the UK is one. Another amazing thing is that after what I think is around $1 trillion dollars spent in former east German states post reunification, the outflow of people still looks to be strong.

"still looks to be strong" As you know, you can't tell that from this picture. An area that has had large annual population decreases for the first 5 years, and slower growth for the second 5 will still show up as red. Also, quite a bit of the population decreases in the countryside will be of people moving into the cities. Because of differences in population density, that can give the impression of population decli…

Why should the growth of economy be a miracle if the population is shrinking?

Mostly that's why the population is shrinking, people who live in the better economies, mostly have less kids, mostly due to the fact that they don't have the time and mostly working harder than others.

Also our economy grown mostly cause of the fact that our strong export got a huge increase since we had a european currency ("Deutsche Mark" or "DM" was just too good for the export market), while the Euro is / was way better since other countries brought it to a lower level.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#20

Post by guard-of-terra »

s_dev wrote: post #16
Terr_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 That reminds me of a section from the book "1493", discussing the introduction of the potato to Europe and later the potato-famine: > Today Ireland has the melancholy distinction of being the only nation in Europe, and perhaps the world, to have fewer people within the same boundaries than it did more than 150 years ago.

The Famine made Ireland "Irish" in the sense that we understand it today. The famine caused people to become more pious in their Catholicism, even more impoverished and detest the British even more than what they previously did. It probably was the single most important factor in shaping modern Ireland. Many here are probably aware that Ireland had in 1845 a population of 9 Million but only 6 Million today (all Islan…

"If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million"

Would you really want to become Bangladesh? 30 Million seems an awfully high number for a country of such size and latitude.

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