In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#11

Post by sremani » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 4:36 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #9

learc83 wrote: post #3

H-1Bs are supposed to be used to fill jobs for which qualified Americans can't be found, but to get around this, Disney lays off workers and brings in a consultancy to take over. The consultancy employs the H-1B workers, not Disney. There are so many loopholes that it seems like the only solutions are to either create a well funded agency/department to oversee this, or to increase the price far enough that H-1Bs are…

It doesn't actually seem that complicated - just stipulate that H1B workers must work on site, for the company they are employed for, not as a contractor. Obviously that would need enforcement, but they already do checkups on some of these things, and if they're paired with high enough fines these outsourcing firms won't risk it.

Follow the money, the US corporations are at least in their mind are saving a lot of operational cost with Outsourcing, so they do lobby for H1B workers of outsourced company to work in their campuses.

Its not a coincidence that decades of Visa abuse is ignored, there are bigger forces than these outsourcing companies namely, the chamber of commerce et al.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#12

Post by saool » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 4:46 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #7

sremani wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they already do collect medicare and social security from foreign workers.

I want the company that receives the H1B to pay an addition tax on the salary that goes to unemployment. It needs to be something above an beyond what is payed for a citizen. After all, the H1B is supposed to have skills that the local workers don't and thus should be worth the extra money.

Unless you are tarring ships, you mean paid, not payed.

As an H1-B holder you have to jump through many hoops, including constant attention to your command of the language. How does it feel to be judged? :)

More importantly, why would you expect more from a foreign applicant that from a local? The point is there shouldn't be discrimination, in either way. H1-Bs are for specialty occupations that are in high demand to begin with. Not sure what encourages you to be more catholic than the Pope.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#13

Post by sremani » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 4:52 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #7

sremani wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they already do collect medicare and social security from foreign workers.

I want the company that receives the H1B to pay an addition tax on the salary that goes to unemployment. It needs to be something above an beyond what is payed for a citizen. After all, the H1B is supposed to have skills that the local workers don't and thus should be worth the extra money.

I would rather burden the employer with additional tax, scrutiny and labor rules. This mechanism is to reset to original intent of acquiring talent rather than cost-saving labor (as currently practiced).

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#14

Post by bsder » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 4:54 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #3

H-1Bs are supposed to be used to fill jobs for which qualified Americans can't be found, but to get around this, Disney lays off workers and brings in a consultancy to take over. The consultancy employs the H-1B workers, not Disney. There are so many loopholes that it seems like the only solutions are to either create a well funded agency/department to oversee this, or to increase the price far enough that H-1Bs are…

The solution is for H1-B workers to auto-convert to a green card after 12 months. Period. The company has 12 months to complete a security check and has to fund it itself.

Now, if the company really needs a worker brought in on an H1-B, they will be very happy and the H1-B queue will continuously clear itself. However, if all they want is an indentured servant, that will get quashed when the green card arrives.

Everybody wins--except for companies who abuse the H1-B program. Which is almost all of them. Which is why you never hear this solution.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#15

Post by tsotha » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #3

H-1Bs are supposed to be used to fill jobs for which qualified Americans can't be found, but to get around this, Disney lays off workers and brings in a consultancy to take over. The consultancy employs the H-1B workers, not Disney. There are so many loopholes that it seems like the only solutions are to either create a well funded agency/department to oversee this, or to increase the price far enough that H-1Bs are…

The H-1B visa should be eliminated. It's been nothing but a scam from the start. If there's a demand for a certain type of skill high wages will attract people to the field.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#16

Post by rtpg » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 5:12 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #14

learc83 wrote: post #3

H-1Bs are supposed to be used to fill jobs for which qualified Americans can't be found, but to get around this, Disney lays off workers and brings in a consultancy to take over. The consultancy employs the H-1B workers, not Disney. There are so many loopholes that it seems like the only solutions are to either create a well funded agency/department to oversee this, or to increase the price far enough that H-1Bs are…

The solution is for H1-B workers to auto-convert to a green card after 12 months. Period. The company has 12 months to complete a security check and has to fund it itself. Now, if the company really needs a worker brought in on an H1-B, they will be very happy and the H1-B queue will continuously clear itself. However, if all they want is an indentured servant, that will get quashed when the green card arrives. Every…

Exactly. The primary issue with H-1B is that it's attached to the company. As a nation, it's in our interest to pull in people with (supposedly) unique skills, and to incentivize them staying in the country.

If the visa is not attached to the company, then the wage deflation effect will be much more minor. After all, the visa holder could just go to the company next door and get a higher wage if the initial company tries to pay too low a salary.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#17

Post by jahewson » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 5:21 AM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #15

learc83 wrote: post #3

H-1Bs are supposed to be used to fill jobs for which qualified Americans can't be found, but to get around this, Disney lays off workers and brings in a consultancy to take over. The consultancy employs the H-1B workers, not Disney. There are so many loopholes that it seems like the only solutions are to either create a well funded agency/department to oversee this, or to increase the price far enough that H-1Bs are…

The H-1B visa should be eliminated. It's been nothing but a scam from the start. If there's a demand for a certain type of skill high wages will attract people to the field.

High wages are not enough. It takes time to train people. It can take years. Demand for experienced workers can't be satisfied with newly trained workers. Demand for skilled workers can very easily exceed their supply.

A good example of this problem currently is nurses in the Bay Area. They are very well paid however there is still a shortage because there isn't enough teaching available. The teachers are of course experienced nurses, so there's no way to increase the supply of teachers without further reducing the supply of nurses.

So while supply and demand will solve them problem eventually, you might have to wait 20 years and in the world of business someone else is going to eat your lunch during that time.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#18

Post by kenrikm » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 5:44 AM UTC

xienze wrote: post #10

learc83 wrote: post #3

H-1Bs are supposed to be used to fill jobs for which qualified Americans can't be found, but to get around this, Disney lays off workers and brings in a consultancy to take over. The consultancy employs the H-1B workers, not Disney. There are so many loopholes that it seems like the only solutions are to either create a well funded agency/department to oversee this, or to increase the price far enough that H-1Bs are…

The other trick is to run job ads with impossible requirements (10+ years of Node.js, etc.) and hey, what do you know, we just don't have the skills required in this country!

I recall back in 2010 I saw job postings looking for a minimum 5 years experience writing iOS Apps. Never mind that the iOS SDK was only two years old at that point. #sigh

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#19

Post by mahyarm » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 5:44 AM UTC

daurnimator wrote: post #6

sremani wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they already do collect medicare and social security from foreign workers.

You can get it back when you turn 65.

No you cannot, unless you have been paying into the system for 10 years. If you have, then you probably have a green card by then. If not, you should get one anyway since you've spent a decade of your life in the country that your pretty much american by that point. Legally and paying a lot of taxes.

You would never get medicare treatment as only an H1-B worker, since if your unemployed, you cannot stay in the country long enough to be able to use medicare benefits much.

So you effectively pay at %12 tax on your income that you will never see the benefits of unless you immigrate.

Re: In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

#20

Post by Animats » Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 5:47 AM UTC

"The Labor Department said last week that it had opened an investigation into two outsourcing companies, Tata Consultancy Services and Infosys..." Disney was using both. And suddenly, Disney management decides that maybe violating labor law isn't such a good idea.

The US has reasonably good labor laws, but weak enforcement and too-small penalties.