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Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

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Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#11

Post by idlewords »

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts"

This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose job it would be to try to predict which ideas had a reasonable chance at success.

The obvious outcome would be a huge distortion in the kinds of startups foreign nationals would found. The value of a green card is far higher than the expected value of a startup, so the process would turn into a bad example of grantsmanship - trying to tailor your proposal to what you think the committee wants to see, and then making sure your startup stays solvent long enough for the permanent residency to come through.

Rather than taking real risks and trying to innovate, the role startups are supposed to take in our economy, we would be encouraging an extremely conservative startup culture, whose real purpose would be to secure green card status for the founders lucky enough to get in the program. How likely are you to bet the company if the consequence of failure is getting kicked out of the country?

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#12

Post by arohner »

idlewords wrote: post #11

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

Another problem with the idea is that the investor approving your founder visa has additional leverage over you. This extra leverage will take the form of lower valuations, lower investments, and (even more) investor friendly terms.

For proof, look to H1Bs. H1B employees are paid significantly less than non-H1B employees. Don't like it? STFU or go back to your home country.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#13

Post by geebee »

idlewords wrote: post #11

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

I completely agree.

There's an additional problem with this proposal - may great startups don't feel they need investment, which allows them to avoid VC's or hold out for favorable terms. From what I've read, this trend is increasing, and I'm pleased to see that founders with technical backgrounds are gaining power relative to investors with expensive watches and MBAs.

But with this proposal, investors would control more than money - they'd control the right to reside and work within the United States.

I don't enjoy being so cynical, but having witnessed the abuses of the H1B, I am absolutely certain that VCs would use this visa to gain power and push around the founders.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#14

Post by arohner »

A better solution would be to just fix immigration. Adopt something similar to the Commonwealth point system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_Skilled_Migrant_Programm..., where you get points for being young, educated, in a useful profession, etc. Get enough points and you're automatically allowed in.

A system like this would reduce the distortion, and allow talented people into the country to bootstrap or e.g. work at Google.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#15

Post by jtnak »

idlewords wrote: post #11

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

I agree 100%. Having the government decide what is a good idea or not for a startup is ridiculous.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#16

Post by aristus »

idlewords wrote: post #11

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

To be fair, this was not at all part of the original proposal; it's one of those idiotic riders tacked on by politicians after they get their hands on something. The only "approval" required was in the form of investors stumping up cash. Any accreditation should be of the investors, not the the founders.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#17

Post by jhancock »

aristus wrote: post #16
idlewords wrote: post #11

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

To be fair, this was not at all part of the original proposal; it's one of those idiotic riders tacked on by politicians after they get their hands on something. The only "approval" required was in the form of investors stumping up cash. Any accreditation should be of the investors , not the the founders.

This is the problem area that bugs me about the founder visa concept. The concept is great. Embodying it into law requires it go through the sausage factory.

I jokingly told a doctor last week I could write health care reform in 5 pages. I'm pretty sure I could. But it wouldn't get through congress in that form.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#18

Post by aristus »

jhancock wrote: post #17
aristus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this was not at all part of the original proposal; it's one of those idiotic riders tacked on by politicians after they get their hands on something. The only "approval" required was in the form of investors stumping up cash. Any accreditation should be of the investors , not the the founders.

This is the problem area that bugs me about the founder visa concept. The concept is great. Embodying it into law requires it go through the sausage factory. I jokingly told a doctor last week I could write health care reform in 5 pages. I'm pretty sure I could. But it wouldn't get through congress in that form.

I was being a bit glib. The sausage factory is there for a reason. That reason often sucks, but it's not random.

Look at it from a policy maker's standpoint: strip out the happy talk about money and jobs. What this boils down to is a group of rich people on the left coast asking for a grant of power, the power to give visas, with no oversight. The politicians doesn't know these geeks from anyone, and here they are asking for a slice of government power.

So they propose a committee to make sure this doesn't become a loophole for rich fugitives and tax-evasion. Certain types of people smell a cushy job and the role expands, the idea gets paraphrased to someone at WSJ and we end up with that sentence.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#19

Post by aristus »

arohner wrote: post #12
idlewords wrote: post #11

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

Another problem with the idea is that the investor approving your founder visa has additional leverage over you. This extra leverage will take the form of lower valuations, lower investments, and (even more) investor friendly terms. For proof, look to H1Bs. H1B employees are paid significantly less than non-H1B employees. Don't like it? STFU or go back to your home country.

The "visa discount" is a real phenomenon, but the alternative is not coming here at all. You don't have to like it (I don't), but that's how it goes.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#20

Post by neilc »

jhancock wrote: post #17
aristus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this was not at all part of the original proposal; it's one of those idiotic riders tacked on by politicians after they get their hands on something. The only "approval" required was in the form of investors stumping up cash. Any accreditation should be of the investors , not the the founders.

This is the problem area that bugs me about the founder visa concept. The concept is great. Embodying it into law requires it go through the sausage factory. I jokingly told a doctor last week I could write health care reform in 5 pages. I'm pretty sure I could. But it wouldn't get through congress in that form.

Well, there is potential for abuse: a startup founder gets an "investment" of $500k from an accredited angel and a permanent resident visa. A little while later, the startup takes an exit (e.g. dissolves the company and returns the assets to the investor), netting the founder a greencard in the process.
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