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Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

wired.com

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Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#11

Post by gyre007 »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #5

Google open source projects in general are just shitty. The reason is that they don't open source the whole thing and the code ends up being full of assumptions that don't hold because you are either not running things at google scale or are missing certain key bits of the "secret sauce". In any event google compute is a terrible user experience compared to the likes of AWS and other cloud providers. Heck, even the s…

This is in no defence to Google, albeit it might seem so, but why isn't Amazon or other big cloud providers opening their stuff ? It's all SDKs and agents.

Google have dedicated developers who are hacking on a lot of open source projects - not just Kubernetes - which takes significant amount of time.

After all - this is for all open source users out there - it's all Open Source - you don't have to use it.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#12

Post by fweespeech »

thockingoog wrote: post #8
fweespeech wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Google hands out all sorts of papers and such a few years after the fact. This is just another example, an open source version of Borg that will always be a few years behind.

While it is true that Borg is 10 years ahead of Kubernetes, we have the benefit of knowing where Borg arrived rather than following the same winding course.

Of course, but unless there is a massive maintainability flaw in Borg, its unlikely you can duplicate 10 years of effort AND maintain pace with Borg's/Borg's successor(s) progress.

Well, without a huge influx of developers to the open source side.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#14

Post by justinsb »

I've been working with Kubernetes a fair bit (I'm contributing to porting it to AWS). It's an exciting time: I believe that we'll be running everything in containers within the next few years, and Kuberentes solves some of the big missing pieces with actually running Docker in production across a cluster. There are other competing systems trying to do the same thing (including Docker Inc itself), but I think Kubernetes has a huge advantage by having years of experience of what did and didn't work well in Borg.

Most importantly of all though, I have found it a great project to use, and a really great project to contribute to. I think that contributions are the lifeblood of open-source projects, and I give Kubernetes 10/10 for their community and processes, which I think bodes very well for the future.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#15

Post by thockingoog »

fweespeech wrote: post #12
thockingoog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that Borg is 10 years ahead of Kubernetes, we have the benefit of knowing where Borg arrived rather than following the same winding course.

Of course, but unless there is a massive maintainability flaw in Borg, its unlikely you can duplicate 10 years of effort AND maintain pace with Borg's/Borg's successor(s) progress. Well, without a huge influx of developers to the open source side.

First, there are a LOT of people working on Kubernetes right now.

Second, of course it will be asymptotic for a long time. But keep in mind that we don't want or need everything that Borg has, and Borg does not have everything that Kubernetes does. Kubernetes is not a clone of Borg - it is inspired by the lessons and experiences we got by doing Borg. Often that means we learned how NOT to do something.

If we can get 75% as functional as Borg in 1/3 the time, we'll be doing pretty darn well. I think we're on track for that.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#16

Post by jsprogrammer »

bsaul wrote: post #13

Is it me or does anyone else interprets all the recent wave of open sourcing as a trend to not create open standards anymore, but instead open source the technology altogether (without even creating the standard). Have standards failed ?

Why would you want your code private?

Instead, let anyone work on it and benefit.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#17

Post by jacques_chester »

cmcluck wrote: post #10
dkarapetyan wrote: post #5

Google open source projects in general are just shitty. The reason is that they don't open source the whole thing and the code ends up being full of assumptions that don't hold because you are either not running things at google scale or are missing certain key bits of the "secret sauce". In any event google compute is a terrible user experience compared to the likes of AWS and other cloud providers. Heck, even the s…

disclaimer: i am a founder of the Kubernetes project and did the article with Cade at Wired. i also was product lead for compute engine back in the day fwiw :). I am not sure which projects you have looked at from Google in terms of Open Source, but in the case of Kubernetes we have worked pretty hard to engage a community outside of Google and work with the community to make sure that Kubernetes is solid. One of the…

I'd be interested to see whether Google follow's Pivotal's lead and donates its IP to an independent foundation, as happened with Cloud Foundry.

Disclaimer: I work for Pivotal, in Pivotal Labs.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#18

Post by mbreese »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #16
bsaul wrote: post #13

Is it me or does anyone else interprets all the recent wave of open sourcing as a trend to not create open standards anymore, but instead open source the technology altogether (without even creating the standard). Have standards failed ?

Why would you want your code private? Instead, let anyone work on it and benefit.

The point of open protocols and standards isn't to keep the code private, there are plenty of open source SMTP or IMAP servers.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#19

Post by VikingCoder »

bsaul wrote: post #13

Is it me or does anyone else interprets all the recent wave of open sourcing as a trend to not create open standards anymore, but instead open source the technology altogether (without even creating the standard). Have standards failed ?

Standards are great when multiple companies want to provide the same service, which must communicate with software written by other companies.

Compiler toolchain, devops, sysadmin, languages, runtimes, etc don't really fit that picture.

Re: Google Open-Sourced Kubernetes to Boost Its Cloud

#20

Post by viklas »

thockingoog wrote: post #7
dkarapetyan wrote: post #5

Google open source projects in general are just shitty. The reason is that they don't open source the whole thing and the code ends up being full of assumptions that don't hold because you are either not running things at google scale or are missing certain key bits of the "secret sauce". In any event google compute is a terrible user experience compared to the likes of AWS and other cloud providers. Heck, even the s…

What key bits do you think are missing from Kubernetes? I'm sorry you seem to have had a bad experience with GCE, but please know that Kubernetes runs on several other clouds, too, with no crippleware or anything. It is 100% open.

And 100% on-track for awesome.

Yes, sometimes development/testing for new kubernetes features 'feels' like it's focussed-first on GCE functionality (before other platforms) and earlier on, it had some hooks that weren't great (like GCE-only external load balancers and storage). But hey, it's not even v1.0 yet - and all those things are either fixed or being worked on already.

And as a non-GCE user, you aren't a second-class citizen. It works everywhere.

We've deployed successfully in AWS, vagrant and bare-metal (in the garage), so far. All with 'one-command' automated deployment and re-use of our pod & service specs throughout.

Roadmap/Architecture-wise, it would be good to see a more 'pluggable' approach for 3rd party integration (more like an Open Stack model), but again, we're still pre-v1.0...

Also, I think the google-folk here are being very 'reasonable' in their replies. Your comment was mis-directed & ill-informed. Go do some reading or watch Kelsey Hightower's presentation from a couple of months ago:

http://chariotsolutions.com/screencast/philly-ete-2015-16-ke...

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