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Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

computerworld.com

11–20 of 22 posts

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#11
post #5

"Almost infinite number of write cycles" is the subtitle. Really now?

Inside the article: "According to Nantero, NRAM can withstand 10^12 write cycles and 10^15 read cycles -- an almost infinite number."

What's hilarious is calling 10^12 "almost infinite." Your CPU clock cycles that often in 10 min.

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#13
post #11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inside the article: "According to Nantero, NRAM can withstand 10^12 write cycles and 10^15 read cycles -- an almost infinite number."

What's hilarious is calling 10^12 "almost infinite." Your CPU clock cycles that often in 10 min.

[deleted]

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#14
So, something akin to magnetic relays at the nanometer level?

I have a hard time believing the durability presented (especially with remarks on how it might as well be an infinite number) for a process that involves movement and contact points.

So, if it's been tested continually for 10 years, why are the fabrication technologies behind? This sounds like marketing for vapor ware with as much hype shoved between the specs.

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#15
post #5

"Almost infinite number of write cycles" is the subtitle. Really now?

Inside the article: "According to Nantero, NRAM can withstand 10^12 write cycles and 10^15 read cycles -- an almost infinite number."

Well, to be fair, if that's true, that's an improvement over 10^2 - 10^3 write cycles is what current NAND-flashes can manage. 10^12 is enough for it not to ever matter.

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#16
post #14

So, something akin to magnetic relays at the nanometer level? I have a hard time believing the durability presented (especially with remarks on how it might as well be an infinite number) for a process that involves movement and contact points. So, if it's been tested continually for 10 years, why are the fabrication technologies behind? This sounds like marketing for vapor ware with as much hype shoved between the s…

>I have a hard time believing the durability presented for a process that involves movement and contact points.

Since the contact points are CNTs I would believe it. Only diamond has a stronger lattice binding those carbon atoms.

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#17
post #11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inside the article: "According to Nantero, NRAM can withstand 10^12 write cycles and 10^15 read cycles -- an almost infinite number."

What's hilarious is calling 10^12 "almost infinite." Your CPU clock cycles that often in 10 min.

You write to your RAM, or even more pertinently, your SSD, on every CPU clock cycle?!

How many times have you written to the same cell on your SSD? Current NAND chips have a write cycle limitation of somewhere around 10^6. Apparently a Taiwanese firm got it to 10^9 in 2012, but I'm guessing that hasn't arrived in production yet. So they have raised the write cycle limit by somewhere between 1000 and 1,0000,000. If you're wearing out your SSD once a year (I'll assume you are using it for swap or something), they've increased it to 1000 yrs. That's pretty much the minimum. So "almost infinite" seems reasonable.

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#18
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's hilarious is calling 10^12 "almost infinite." Your CPU clock cycles that often in 10 min.

You write to your RAM, or even more pertinently, your SSD, on every CPU clock cycle?! How many times have you written to the same cell on your SSD? Current NAND chips have a write cycle limitation of somewhere around 10^6. Apparently a Taiwanese firm got it to 10^9 in 2012, but I'm guessing that hasn't arrived in production yet. So they have raised the write cycle limit by somewhere between 1000 and 1,0000,000. If yo…

It's almost infinite by disk standards, but still fairly finite by RAM standards.

The fastest DDR3 is PC3-17000 which has a write speed of 17000MB/s peak. Or roughly 16GB/s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

Assuming that you re-write your entire RAM every second, that's 10^12 seconds or about 32000 years. https://www.google.com/search?q=10%5E12%20seconds&rct=j

But if you're writing to your RAM at a 10 microsecond interval (say you're doing something like a firewall or HFT) and you keep re-using the same few megs of RAM then instead of 32000 years it's more like 4 months.

So it's fantastic for "durable" storage, but definitely not as good as SRAM or DRAM in general. The lifetime of SRAM and DRAM are both going to be based on the lifetime of the silicon which is roughly related to the temperature of the chip and the thermal migration of dopants. Hotter means more energy for dopants to move, but generally measured in many years or decades.

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#19
post #12

It's being produced at 7 different fabs, but will still take 2 years for them to "begin rolling off production lines"? Something doesn't add up.

From TFA: "They are sample chips/test chips in preparation for mass production, which requires the product designs to be completed."

Re: Fab plants are now making superfast carbon nanotube memory

#20
The article appears to be a rehash of this Nantero press release:[1] That says "Signaling a new era in memory, Nantero’s NRAM has already been installed in multiple production fabs..."

This technology has been around for a while. Lockheed Martin built a 4MB NRAM back in 2008, and sent it up with a memory tester on a Space Shuttle flight in 2009.[2] That was done in conjunction with Nantero; they had an arrangement for government products. The technology is inherently rad-hard, so it's useful for space operations.

This technology has been two years from volume production since 2008.[3] It's not clear why it hasn't reached production yet. It clearly works. It may just cost too much.

[1] http://nantero.com/nantero-closes-30m-series-e-round-its-nex... [2] http://www.nsti.org/events/NNI/sld/pdf/65.pdf [3] http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/devices/na...

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