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Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

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11–20 of 33 posts

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same VPNs that use weak DHE crypto? https://weakdh.org/

Just use IKEv2, and you won't be affected. Or just don't use MODP1024.

An even simpler approach would be to connect both ends with spiped: http://www.tarsnap.com/spiped.html

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#13
post #8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It looks as though the researchers saw that as a possibility too: "It is possible to temporarily mitigate the flaw by implementing the following workaround: Researchers have demonstrated that ITP can be operated over TLS/DTLS, using certificate-based authentication to ensure the security and integrity of the protocol." I don't really understand why this is only a "temporary mitigation", though, rather than a…

Why is that a "temporary" fix? Segregating insecure protocols to VPNs, encrypted tunnels, and backchannel networks is one of the oldest most time-honored tools in the security design toolbox. Not only is it a real fix, but it's probably the right fix.

You must not have gotten the memo: Google exposed some of their corporate systems to everyone, therefore VPNs are now useless and have always been useless.

:)

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess my confidence in the telerobot is lowered by the fact that the protocol doesn't ensure authenticity of surgery instructions. It leads me to believe what other flaws (including those outside the scope of security) exist. Hopefully, we're still testing these surgeries on mice and not men.

A VPN with only two valid certificates means that the guy holding the other cert (assuming you have one of them) is definitely who he says he is.

You are right, but I'm alluding to the intrinsic security flaw of the robot. What other flaws could exist? They need not be security related.

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#17
post #8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It looks as though the researchers saw that as a possibility too: "It is possible to temporarily mitigate the flaw by implementing the following workaround: Researchers have demonstrated that ITP can be operated over TLS/DTLS, using certificate-based authentication to ensure the security and integrity of the protocol." I don't really understand why this is only a "temporary mitigation", though, rather than a…

Why is that a "temporary" fix? Segregating insecure protocols to VPNs, encrypted tunnels, and backchannel networks is one of the oldest most time-honored tools in the security design toolbox. Not only is it a real fix, but it's probably the right fix.

If systems are life critical, you go so far as to use leased lines or other physical layer segregations. Treat it like a refinery, transformer substation, or natural gas pipeline terminal SCADA system.

EDIT: Easy on the downvotes folks. If you disagree, engage me in discourse. As an infrastructure/network/devops/it generalist role, I have seen terrible things happen when you don't properly segregate critical systems from public networks.

http://scadastrangelove.blogspot.com/

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A VPN with only two valid certificates means that the guy holding the other cert (assuming you have one of them) is definitely who he says he is.

You are right, but I'm alluding to the intrinsic security flaw of the robot. What other flaws could exist? They need not be security related.

Yeah, I sure would hate for a cosmic ray to flip a bit while an instruction is en route, and instead of gently cutting out my appendix, having the robot suddenly deprive me of a kidney.

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#19
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It looks as though the researchers saw that as a possibility too: "It is possible to temporarily mitigate the flaw by implementing the following workaround: Researchers have demonstrated that ITP can be operated over TLS/DTLS, using certificate-based authentication to ensure the security and integrity of the protocol." I don't really understand why this is only a "temporary mitigation", though, rather than a…

I guess my confidence in the telerobot is lowered by the fact that the protocol doesn't ensure authenticity of surgery instructions. It leads me to believe what other flaws (including those outside the scope of security) exist. Hopefully, we're still testing these surgeries on mice and not men.

Are you confident that telesurgery developers are better at encryption and authentication than VPN developers?

Re: Interoperable Telesurgery Protocol Plaintext Unauthenticated MitM Hijacking

#20
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess my confidence in the telerobot is lowered by the fact that the protocol doesn't ensure authenticity of surgery instructions. It leads me to believe what other flaws (including those outside the scope of security) exist. Hopefully, we're still testing these surgeries on mice and not men.

Are you confident that telesurgery developers are better at encryption and authentication than VPN developers?

No, did I imply so? Just saying that I have very little confidence in the bot. I'm saying the intrinsic security flaw of the robot allows me to believe there are more serious defects. These do not need to be security related. The test cases not passing could lead to death.

I've made no commentary on VPN. Just commenting the communication protocol without augmentations (VPN, TLS, certificate, or otherwise) instills little confidence in the rest of the product. I wouldn't want to be operated under the bot.

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