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Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

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Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#11
post #5

Title should be "Downloading Putty Safely Is Nearly Impossible" Don't most people install stuff in Windows through Ninite when possible these days? I know it has at least one SSH client. And in my experience, the vast majority of good software is at the top of any search query.

> Don't most people install stuff in Windows through Ninite when possible these days?

No, most people do not.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#12
The second-to-last point makes zero sense in this context. What makes you think that your browser is any more trustworthy?

And of course, none of this matters when you're running this software on a closed-source operating system - one which you, therefore, have virtually-zero ability to independently audit. So even if your programs are perfectly trustworthy, the underlying operating system has free reign to compromise them without you being able to detect it or do anything about it.

Probably the most surefire way of being actually secure is to drive to Calgary and pay Theo de Raadt to burn you an OpenBSD CD-ROM right before your eyes, then install it on your computer (and even this is fraught with danger; who's to say that Theo isn't going to backdoor your installation?). Virtually every other method of installing anything is insecure, whether you download the thing or have the thing mailed to you or what have you (the sole exception being to download the source code, manually audit it yourself, and manually hand-compile it to machine code - can't trust that compiler to not be compromised, after all). And on that note, you therefore still can't trust Theo's custom-made OpenBSD CD-ROM, since he very well might have compiled it with a compromised compiler, so now you have to take the OpenBSD source code and hand-compile that to machine code before you can do anything else.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#14
Downloading BINARY software safely is impossible indeed. Downloading SOURCE software poses no security risk. As long as only human read those sources, to check for this software behavior.

WHEN the sources have been audited, and cleared for any security or other bugs, you may consider compiling them.

That's where the real crux of the problem lies: https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thomp... http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheKenThompsonHack You cannot trust software more than you trust your compiler or your interpreter or in general, your processor.

Since big commercial OS providers are KNOWN to be collaborating with the NSA to but backdoors and spy on you in the first place, you cannot have any trust there anyways. Why worry about random binary software on the web, when your base OS is already compromized?

Otherwise, you may choose to use hardware that you trust, preferably, that you have built yourself. Alternatively, you may build a computer using triplicate parts from different sources (eg. put an Intel, an Elbrus-4C and a Godsoon, and compare bus traffic. As soon as a difference is detected, raise an exception and abort the process), similarly, put three different network controllers, made in three different countries, and compare output packets. As soon as there's a difference, drop the packets and signal the process. etc.

Once you've got a trustable hardware base, you can build a trustable software layer, using only sources and bootstrapping binaries by hand (with people you trust, preferably yourself), and as indicated in Countering Trusting Trust through Diverse Double-Compiling, http://www.acsa-admin.org/2005/abstracts/47.html you may implement also at the software level, a similar kind of redundancy that allows you to increase the trust you may have in your bootstrapping chain.

But there is no way out, you have to start from the sources, read them and consider only source code when exchanging software.

Notice that debian is a binary distribution. Gentoo is a source distribution. Gentoo is more trustworthy (but you need to be careful how you bootstrap its installation, which is not easy).

This is why licenses such as the AGPL, and also works to make software higher level and shorter (understandable and therefore trustable by end users) such as Alan Kay's, are important.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#16
> Briefly wonder if Tatham’s PGP keys are noted in a central registry, such as MIT’s PGP key server. Nope.

Putty's keys are on the MIT server if you search for "putty": http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=putty&op=index

Still, agreed, it's a lot of work -- most people won't have gpg/pgp installed. Someone should sponsor Simon's codesigning cert for now.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#17
post #4

Putty is pretty awful anyway. Git for windows installs a shell that is not terrible, includes an ssh client, and is distributed over https. It is my go-to when I have to use a windows machine.

What causes you to say that putty is pretty awful?

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#18

None of which would have mattered if Putty.exe was codesigned. Unfortunately it is not. Code signing certificates are insanely expensive. The cheapest one I could find from a CA was $73/year (3 year minimum). I could go on a long rant now about how much CAs are in collusion and how they're making everyone more insecure though their pricing, but that would be redundant as I think "everyone knows that" by now. Let's En…

If SSL is free and easy (especially if it's automatable) to generate through Let's Encrypt, the use case for wildcards mostly goes away.

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#19

None of which would have mattered if Putty.exe was codesigned. Unfortunately it is not. Code signing certificates are insanely expensive. The cheapest one I could find from a CA was $73/year (3 year minimum). I could go on a long rant now about how much CAs are in collusion and how they're making everyone more insecure though their pricing, but that would be redundant as I think "everyone knows that" by now. Let's En…

Open source developers have a dwindling number of free options:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1177552/code-signing-cert...

https://reactos.org/wiki/Driver_Signing

Re: Downloading PuTTY Safely Is Nearly Impossible (2014)

#20
post #10
post #3

[deleted]

Why not fork PuTTY?

There are quite a few forks out there already, mostly with slightly better user interfaces. None of them seem to have much traction though.

There are also some pretty good commercial alternatives although they get drowned out by all the free stuff on Google.

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