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PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

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Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#11

Post by steveklabnik »

patio11 wrote: post #4

Fuck [iPhone developers] those condescending, ignorant, self-important, stupid, blind, fearful pricks. Fuck them real hard. Where it hurts. And fucking them real hard where it hurts is exactly what Apple is doing right now. We choose the world we want to live in, and I don't want to live in a world where writing like this is unremarkable. It adds nothing to the overall argument and coarsens us to no purpose. I am sym…

Your attribution is wrong.

He's not talking about iPhone developers, he's talking about the people in the sentence before it:

After ten years I am fucking tired of the “Web development is not real programming” bullshit that the arrogant bastards in “real programming” are spouting because they’re too frightened to learn something new.

Now, the Venn diagram may have some overlap, but still.

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#12

Post by jcl »

"It also supports JavaScript geolocation, which is (I hope) only the first step towards true device APIs that will give JavaScript developers access to phone functionality such as the camera, text messaging, the address book, and more. I’m assuming Apple is working on all that because it’s the next logical step."

One could also argue that Apple benefits most in the short term by crippling web apps, since the App Store represents a revenue stream and is the main selling point of all their recent advertising.

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#13

Post by c1sc0 »

The essence of the AppStore hovers around marketing & distribution, not technology. Apple set up a great distribution channel, making it super-easy for developers to get paid & they are throwing in some free promotion to boot. In the end, it's about money: can you afford the opportunity cost of not being present on the AppStore & make money right now? What's the cost of promoting your WebKit app going to be? Apple convinced people that it is ok to pay a little money for simple apps that run on their mobile phone. That was Apple's genius move, not the technology that makes iPhone apps tick. If you simply follow the money the whole AppStore debacle becomes a lot clearer.

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#14

Post by mvaerle »

ulf wrote: post #6

While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...

I don't know if this is already done. But the second point really begs for an entrepreneur to solve this. A simple model for payment for web apps, you could support one off sales, subscriptions models etc. Make an API for developers and handle all the credit-card processing stuff.

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#15

Post by SamAtt »

ulf wrote: post #6

While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...

You left out one important point that he mentions but doesn't give enough credit to...

3) There's still a lot of features on the iPhone that you can only access through native apps.

He claims most of the apps he has could be web apps. But I just opened my iPhone to the Top 25 paid apps and 7 out of the top 10 could only exist as native apps (and the other three are debatable but in theory you could write them in Javascript)

Here's the list...

Voices: Requires access to the mic

JellyCar: Requires native app for soundtrack (which is actually a big deal in the game)

RedLaser: Requires access to the camera

Call of Duty: Graphics require a native app

All in One Gamebox: Graphics require a native app

Alarm Clock Pro: Has to be able to play music library

Metal Gear: Graphics require a native app

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#16

Post by patio11 »

edd wrote: post #9
ulf wrote: post #6

While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...

Your first point is so valid. Having created a webapp for the iPhone myself there really are few places I can go to put my webapp on a stage that anyone cares about. If someone knows of any I honestly would love to know where they are.

Organic SEO. (Lots of work. Requires savvy. Not guaranteed. Stupendous ROI if you do it right.)

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#18

Post by jfager »

I know this is really only applicable for a few cities, but speaking for myself: as a consumer, I don't want webapps right now. AT&T's network sucks hard in NYC, and even if it didn't, a very large portion of the time I spend with apps on my phone is when I'm killing time on the subway. Offline is important, and while we're starting to solve that with some of the browser tech he pointed to, it really isn't there yet in a form that's competitive with native apps.

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#19

Post by microkid »

edd wrote: post #9
ulf wrote: post #6

While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...

Your first point is so valid. Having created a webapp for the iPhone myself there really are few places I can go to put my webapp on a stage that anyone cares about. If someone knows of any I honestly would love to know where they are.

Why not create an iPhone app, which is simply a WebKit view dedicated to your web app?

The client see's it as a "iPhone app" you can host/sell it in the store, but it's really just a web app.

(Maybe there's a restriction on this, but I can't see why there would be...)

Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."

#20

Post by bumblebird »

edd wrote: post #9
ulf wrote: post #6

While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...

Your first point is so valid. Having created a webapp for the iPhone myself there really are few places I can go to put my webapp on a stage that anyone cares about. If someone knows of any I honestly would love to know where they are.

This is the problem though. The app store is like "American Idol". Singers see American Idol etc as a quick route to fame. Then they're "famous" for 30 minutes, then not.

It's far better to build up a real sustainable following yourself based on real merits. The app store is full of gimicky one time apps people will use once to show their friends, then never use again :/

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