Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

adam-bien.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 104 posts

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#11

Post by eranation »

mkawia wrote: post #7
eranation wrote: post #4

Modern Java EE has taken a lot of influence from other web frameworks. It is now much more convention over configuration than it used to be. I think it just lacks a new MVC module as an alternative to JSF. If only jersey 2.0's mvc templates were added to the core, I would have considered it instead of other alternatives (e.g. Adding routing to a view from JAX-RS, right now it's not trivial and meant mostly for "servi…

Working with Java Servlet is very hard to be productive in it , Simple things that I took for granted like routing,templating,user management and processing forms with binaries ie form-data is really hard. But the static typing is really good ,ofcourse the language too .Maybe I should I've tried Jersey .

Yes, servlets are not the best for modern web development :) (although they have their uses...) JAX-RS (jersey is the reference implementation) is like a parallel universe, well designed, batteries included, statically typed REST API framewrok that has a lot of potential (I prefer it over Spring MVC in terms of syntax or even over play framework's routing)

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#12

Post by eranation »

mikehaggard wrote: post #8
eranation wrote: post #4

Modern Java EE has taken a lot of influence from other web frameworks. It is now much more convention over configuration than it used to be. I think it just lacks a new MVC module as an alternative to JSF. If only jersey 2.0's mvc templates were added to the core, I would have considered it instead of other alternatives (e.g. Adding routing to a view from JAX-RS, right now it's not trivial and meant mostly for "servi…

> I think it just lacks a new MVC module as an alternative to JSF. In Java EE 8 such a new MVC framework is indeed coming. From the same startup the article uses as an example: https://mvc.zeef.com/manfred.riem That page is from the MVC 1.0 spec lead (Manfred Riem). It's going to be strongly based on JAX-RS and mimicking how Spring MVC and Jersey MVC now works.

This is great news!

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#13

Post by eranation »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #10
mkawia wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working with Java Servlet is very hard to be productive in it , Simple things that I took for granted like routing,templating,user management and processing forms with binaries ie form-data is really hard. But the static typing is really good ,ofcourse the language too .Maybe I should I've tried Jersey .

If I had to go back to Servlet development today, I would probably go directly for Spring WebMVC or whatever is current from Spring. I also wasn't a big fan of the Servlet system.

I second that. If you really want to save time start with spring boot, or even a yeoman generator like JHipster...

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#14

Post by cies »

Is this article telling the story of someone who's been on the JEE for 12 years, loves it, and would certainly choose it again.

While I'm happy for him, I dont think it makes a good case JEE as a "startup's secret weapon" (SSW).

By hypothetical comparison, if someone used 6 major tool chains for the last $DOUBLE_DIGIT_NUMBER years, and by comparison says one particular tool chain is an SSW, then I'm much more inclined to value the recommendation.

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#15

Post by eranation »

threeseed wrote: post #6
eranation wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not extraordinary if you're an enterprise shop. What's not cool and old school for startups is probably the widest used web / services framework in the enterprise world, vying only with Spring and ASP.net There are probably more java EE jobs out there than ruby ones. (It doesn't say anything really, except the fact that some places don't laugh at you if you suggest Java EE, some places would laugh at you if you sugge…

Sure it's not extraordinary to still see them used. But suggested for a new project ? I've spent at least 15 years in enterprise companies and most new projects I've seen have been Scala/Clojure/Java 8 style in microservices form. Less so the monolithic WAR style apps. Not dismissing the choice at all. Would just like to hear more about why they are bucking the popular trend.

I guess it depends on the "hard core" ness of the enterprise. Walmart and such? Yes, scala / dropwizard / Vert.X and even Node.JS can be popular. Bank of X? X insurance? You will be suggesting even to upgrade to the latest Java EE and look like a crazy revolutionist.

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#16

Post by john-waterwood »

threeseed wrote: post #2

There is no doubt this combination would be extremely high performant e.g. Wildfly was always in the top handful on Techempower benchmarks. But using JSF and EJB is a pretty extraordinary combination to be using these days. You would honestly be laughed out of every Java development team for even considering it. Would definitely like to see why something like Dropwizard, Vert.x or even Play 1 wasn't considered.

JSF and EJB are the reason why Java EE is lately considered the "secret weapon".

The fact is that both invoke memories of old times where they were very heavyweight and problematic technologies.

EJB was a total disaster, where you needed to implement 3 interfaces and inherit from a framework provided base class, compile your code with a special "enhancing" tool and run yet another tool to generate something called stubs and skeletons, just to do hello world.

Modern EJB on the other hand is a POJO with a single annotation:

    @Stateless
    public class Bean {
        // do something 
    }
That's all. There are no required framework or business interfaces, no obligation to put ejb beans in a separate EJB module and there are no specific compiler tools needed. It's a total day and night difference.

In modern Java EE there's no reason whatsoever to avoid EJB.

There's a similar story with JSF. The first versions (1.x) were mostly POST focused, had heavy session space requirements, and components were hard to create.

In modern JSF 2.x, there's first class support for using GET, and the PRG pattern is at the heart of interactions that are logically POST. Session requiremebts are largely minimized by use of a partial state saving (only changes to state are saved) and a stateless mode (nothing is saved). You can use plain html to author pages with a single extra namespaced attribute to mark it as a component to JSF.

Again a night and day difference and no need to avoid it anymore.

Then JSF has a number of very cool extensions available such as PrimeFaces (beautiful visual components) and OmniFaces (Swiss army knife like Guave is for plain Java)

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#19

Post by john-waterwood »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #10
mkawia wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working with Java Servlet is very hard to be productive in it , Simple things that I took for granted like routing,templating,user management and processing forms with binaries ie form-data is really hard. But the static typing is really good ,ofcourse the language too .Maybe I should I've tried Jersey .

If I had to go back to Servlet development today, I would probably go directly for Spring WebMVC or whatever is current from Spring. I also wasn't a big fan of the Servlet system.

There's very little need to go to Spring today. Base Java EE includes nearly everything that one needs.

Plain Servlets is what you get when using just Tomcat, but Java EE goes beyond that with really great support for bean management and DI (CDI), persistence via ORM (JPA), declarative validation (bean validation), REST (JAX-RS), MVC web franework (JSF), etc

Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com

#20

Post by mkawia »

dschiptsov wrote: post #17

Please, Java EE here is an offence to our intelligence. There are infoq and other yellow paid content sites for it. Please.

What's wrong if that platform is improving . There are so many really good java libraries to play with .

I for instance wanted to build a webapp with the StanfordNLP .

Post reply on HN