6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White' • Hacker News Board

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#11

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

Couple of off the cuff thoughts: Why can't people use the expression "niger" in context? It was clearly meant as a racial insult, and I think people need to remember that that is the way it is commonly used. Replacing it with a placeholder doesn't make racism go away or make the word less racist, all it does it soften the racism used in that instance.

His TSA story is more likely fiction. Is he saying that there are "TSA" in London? And in either case I've never seen the TSA select people "randomly" by name alone (in fact they do their profiling based on appearance, not name, which is arguably even more insidious). Even if they DID select by name, how would he, a selectee know the names of everyone else selected at the same time? The whole story makes no sense and sounds made up (by someone who's never travelled or been randomly selected no less).

I've been randomly selected a handful of times, but they don't know my name when they do so.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#12

Post by calibraxis » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:40 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

Our bureaucratic preoccupation with racial and gender categories is much like those who segmented bloodlines into Untouchables, or royalty. (As if it was ever impressive to be related to some glorified dictator called a "king".) Consider that, depending on your racial category, it may be ok for the US state to choke you to death in public.

Even just to speak normal English, you have to basically surveil into people's genders. (He/she. One consequence is you have to cram many people into a false category, like a bureaucrat only having yes/no on the form.)

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#13

Post by mathgeek » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:40 PM UTC

viach wrote: post #2

My english is far from perfect, but there are effectively 7 words, no?

There are six words, but it isn't a proper sentence. That was the part that I immediately noticed.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#14

Post by stefantalpalaru » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

> [horrific racial expletive deleted]

Nigga please... The only horrific things about a word coming straight from the latin root for "black" are the linguistic segregation behind it and the fact that this segregation is now willingly enforced by the minorities themselves.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#15

Post by lotsofmangos » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:44 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black

It's easy to assume that. It really is a very rough guide though, so if you stick to it, don't be surprised if you end up looking like a complete idiot on several occasions throughout your life.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#16

Post by ctdonath » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:45 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Couple of off the cuff thoughts: Why can't people use the expression "niger" in context? It was clearly meant as a racial insult, and I think people need to remember that that is the way it is commonly used. Replacing it with a placeholder doesn't make racism go away or make the word less racist, all it does it soften the racism used in that instance. His TSA story is more likely fiction. Is he saying that there are…

Been a while since I flew England to USA, but yes there was/is a TSA contingent operating their own screenings on US-bound flights.

ETA: "TSA" including any entity providing TSA-style screening at the behest of the TSA.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#17

Post by Retra » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:45 PM UTC

irl_zebra wrote: post #7

Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

We all make decisions and assumptions based on our past experiences. It's perfectly natural that if we keep seeing the same input leading to the same output over and over, we begin to associate that input with that output. Sometimes the input doesn't lead to the output, which helps us inform our future actions, but there's nothing inherently wrong with making assumptions and taking actions based on our experiences.

We all have to make decisions based on incomplete information. This means the decisions you make are approximations; their accuracy is contingent upon a lack of good information. It's not about assumptions per se: whatever you assume will be partially wrong.

With that said, if you want a high degree of accuracy in matters like this, you're going to have to give up many of those highly efficient heuristics we've evolved. That may not be a good idea. Instead we develop more heuristics that tell us when to apply simplifications and assumptions, and those will often fail.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#18

Post by galfarragem » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:46 PM UTC

I have also an uncommon name for my country/peer group so I understand how he feels but don't take the easy path and make it just race related, it goes well beyond it. Some names have stereotypes attached that makes them a potential liability in your life (job applications, bullying, negative first opinion, wasted time, etc).

If I had a dollar for each time I had to explain how to write my name during my life, I would be rich by now. So many famous people have changed their name, there must be a reason for it..

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#19

Post by pilsetnieks » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:47 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Couple of off the cuff thoughts: Why can't people use the expression "niger" in context? It was clearly meant as a racial insult, and I think people need to remember that that is the way it is commonly used. Replacing it with a placeholder doesn't make racism go away or make the word less racist, all it does it soften the racism used in that instance. His TSA story is more likely fiction. Is he saying that there are…

"In January of 2002 I flew to London" — TSA was on the US side; plus their selection procedure might have been different 13 years ago.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#20

Post by rfrey » Wed, May 06, 2015, 1:47 PM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #14

> [horrific racial expletive deleted] Nigga please... The only horrific things about a word coming straight from the latin root for "black" are the linguistic segregation behind it and the fact that this segregation is now willingly enforced by the minorities themselves.

Etymology is irrelevant in emotionally charged discussions. Context matters.