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You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

stat.columbia.edu

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Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#11

Got a lot of respect for Andrew Gelman, but it's too bad he didn't cite Persi Diaconis: http://statweb.stanford.edu/~susan/papers/headswithJ.pdf

The Gelman-Nolan paper is from 2002; the Diaconis et al. paper is from 2007, and cites Gelman-Nolan. Gelman and Nolan are pretty smart, but they don't have a time machine.

[deleted]

Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#12
post #5

It's already biased towards the face that is facing up to start. With practice or by accident, you can toss it so that it wobbles but doesn't actually flip over. A casual observer cannot tell the difference. Explained in http://www.amazon.com/Heads-Or-Tails-Gary-Kosnitzky/dp/B00FM...

TODO: Build a robot with precise enough control that it can flip a coin (properly flipping, not just wobbling) and then catch it in a desired state (either heads or tails) with substantial accuracy.

[deleted]

Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#13
post #5

It's already biased towards the face that is facing up to start. With practice or by accident, you can toss it so that it wobbles but doesn't actually flip over. A casual observer cannot tell the difference. Explained in http://www.amazon.com/Heads-Or-Tails-Gary-Kosnitzky/dp/B00FM...

TODO: Build a robot with precise enough control that it can flip a coin (properly flipping, not just wobbling) and then catch it in a desired state (either heads or tails) with substantial accuracy.

That reminds me of the rock-paper-scissors robot from a while ago that always "wins" by watching the human hand to see what sign they are throwing, then throwing the countersign faster. It is so fast that unless you are watching it on high-speed film, you can't tell that it is cheating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nxjjztQKtY

Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#14
That's why cypherpunks each bring their own coin and XOR the heads. Or flip a biased coin twice. If you get HH or TT, discard and start over. If you get HT or TH, take the first flip of the pair.

More to the paper, I liked the point about using unexpected results to drive student engagement. In one of the early episodes of Very Bad Wizards, they described some aspects of teaching as like a magic show. I think it's a good analogy.

http://verybadwizards.com/

Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Gelman-Nolan paper is from 2002; the Diaconis et al. paper is from 2007, and cites Gelman-Nolan. Gelman and Nolan are pretty smart, but they don't have a time machine.

Indeed Diaconis et al. cites Gelman-Nolan.

The nut of the citation is worth reading:

"In light of all the variations, it is natural to ask if inhomogeneity in the mass distribution of the coin can change the outcome. [Lindley, 1981] followed by [Gelman & Nolan, 2002] give informal arguments suggesting that inhomogeneity doesn’t matter for flipped coins caught in the hand. Jaynes reports that 100 flips of a jar lid showed no evidence of bias. We had coins made with lead on one side and balsa wood on the other. Again no bias showed up. All of this changes drastically if inhomogenious coins are spun on the table (they tend to land heavy side up). As explained above, some of this bias persists for coins flipped onto a table or floor."

You have to love Persi Diaconis. Having coins made up with lead on one side and balsa wood on the other.

Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#19

That's why cypherpunks each bring their own coin and XOR the heads. Or flip a biased coin twice. If you get HH or TT, discard and start over. If you get HT or TH, take the first flip of the pair. More to the paper, I liked the point about using unexpected results to drive student engagement. In one of the early episodes of Very Bad Wizards, they described some aspects of teaching as like a magic show. I think it's a…

"Or flip a biased coin twice" - TFA argues that there is no such thing.

> That's why cypherpunks each bring their own coin and XOR the heads

I'm not sure what part of the article you are referring to here, but this is more about the XOR being decorrelated from either of the inputs than about anything to do with the efficacy/existence of a biased coin, right?

Re: You can load a die but you can't bias a coin (2002) [pdf]

#20
post #5

It's already biased towards the face that is facing up to start. With practice or by accident, you can toss it so that it wobbles but doesn't actually flip over. A casual observer cannot tell the difference. Explained in http://www.amazon.com/Heads-Or-Tails-Gary-Kosnitzky/dp/B00FM...

TODO: Build a robot with precise enough control that it can flip a coin (properly flipping, not just wobbling) and then catch it in a desired state (either heads or tails) with substantial accuracy.

Not a robot, but Persi Diaconis (mathematician and magician) built a coin-flipping machine.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1697475

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