NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant • Hacker News Board

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#11

Post by shard972 » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 5:24 AM UTC

username223 wrote: post #9

As a couple commenters on a related Ars article[1] point out, it seems weird that police would drop cases rather than reveal stingray details if it were just a matter of scooping up voice, text, and location data using a fake transmitter. Those things are pretty obvious, so why all the secrecy? [1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/fbi-would-rather-...

Because if we knew the government spies on us we would take steps to not be spied on and that would help the terrorists which are us.

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#12

Post by mirimir » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 5:34 AM UTC

    Spidey is an Android-based stingray (IMSI
    catcher) detector that uses machine learning
    to detect the presence of stingray devices
    which can be used to eavesdrop on cellular
    communication.

http://signup.spideyapp.com/

Also see http://codesign.mit.edu/category/macluguardian-project/

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#13

Post by godgod » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 5:40 AM UTC

omarchowdhury wrote: post #10

That's it?

46 times too many. This is totally illegal.

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#14

Post by Deebot » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 8:29 AM UTC

shard972 wrote: post #11

username223 wrote: post #9

As a couple commenters on a related Ars article[1] point out, it seems weird that police would drop cases rather than reveal stingray details if it were just a matter of scooping up voice, text, and location data using a fake transmitter. Those things are pretty obvious, so why all the secrecy? [1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/fbi-would-rather-...

Because if we knew the government spies on us we would take steps to not be spied on and that would help the terrorists which are us.

The more likely reason is that there is something these are capable of that hasn't yet been found out by the public, which would make the government and the companies who make these devices look very bad if it became public information.

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#15

Post by appleflaxen » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 11:25 AM UTC

The most insane part of all of this: there is already a way to get this data. All the police need to do is show probable cause. Which, for any reasonable application, is straightforward.

I don't know if they are lazy, authoritarian, or both.

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#16

Post by Eye_of_Mordor » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 1:37 PM UTC

'secret' police

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#17

Post by talmand » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

Seems we have an amount of falsifying documents, lying to judges, illegal surveillance, and more potentially illegal activity going on. I'm sure we'll here about the upcoming investigation into these acts by the justice department any day now. I mean, there has to be court cases of some sort to be able to get a court to determine the legality of such activity, right?

Except that the department of justice is involved and they do their best to avoid such court cases that could determine legality of these activities.

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#18

Post by omgitstom » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 1:50 PM UTC

This isn't state wide data, just one county in NY, with a population under 1MM. When you start to extrapolate the data it starts to get a little interesting...

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#19

Post by mckoss » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:21 PM UTC

It seems to me a Stingray is designed specifically to get around the need for a court order. OTW they would just subpoena the records of a cell carrier to get the information on a target they suspect.

Re: NY Cops Used ‘Stingray’ Spy Tool 46 Times Without Warrant

#20

Post by upofadown » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:48 PM UTC

So the lesson learned here is that the police should not keep any records at all. The fact that this particular department ended up recording use could in some sense be considered an error. Law enforcement has been doing secret surveillance since before ever. The Stingray stuff is just an attempt to continue doing what they have always done in the face of encryption.

It's probably time for society to have a discussion about this issue. Law enforcement can not protect us from ourselves if they don't know what we are doing. The War on Drugs pretty much mandates the use of secret surveillance for example. It's like asking a friend to help with your diet but at the same time forbidding them from looking in the cupboards or the fridge. If we don't like law enforcement snooping in our affairs then we should stop asking them to do so.