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Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

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Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#11

Post by thinkzig »

auston wrote: post #4
imraj wrote: post #3

I think techies got it wrong this time.

I beg to differ, how can they TRULY measure the value of their service if they aren't tracking a highly relevant action such as phone calls? Especially if they are supposed to be getting paid per call .

They can truly measure the value of the service by charging for it and seeing what service providers are willing to pay.

All the fake phone number does is measure how many phone leads the site generates, but it does nothing to measure the value of those leads. What if it generates 30 leads a month from consumers that are a bad fit for the service provider? On the other hand, what if it's 3 leads a month that turn into valuable business?

I'm with the plumber on this one. If you're trying to gain favor with a business you don't do it by hijacking their name and representing them as something they are not.

HelpHive got this one wrong.

Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#13

Post by jwhitlark »

I went and looked at the site. They list the companies' address, and below it a phone number. The layout implies that the phone number belongs to the business. If they wanted to do it the right way, they could have added something like, "contact this business via helphive".

I would call this highly unethical, at this point; it is a willful and material misrepresentation of the facts.

Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#15

Post by auston »

jamesbritt wrote: post #8
auston wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ, how can they TRULY measure the value of their service if they aren't tracking a highly relevant action such as phone calls? Especially if they are supposed to be getting paid per call .

How does their want for data make this ethical?

I fail to see how it is unethical, provided it is disclosed that the number will be routed.

Maybe I missed something...

Plumber pays helphive $99 a year (see: http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/10/21/helphive-tests-pay...) to be listed?

In doing so, Plumber agrees to the terms that state his phone number will be re-routed?

Plumber didn't read his agreement & now he is upset?

Plumber can turn off this feature & he is still upset?

Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#17

Post by [deleted] »

auston wrote: post #15
jamesbritt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does their want for data make this ethical?

I fail to see how it is unethical, provided it is disclosed that the number will be routed. Maybe I missed something... Plumber pays helphive $99 a year (see: http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/10/21/helphive-tests-pay... ) to be listed? In doing so, Plumber agrees to the terms that state his phone number will be re-routed? Plumber didn't read his agreement & now he is upset? Plumber can turn off this feature & he i…

[deleted]

Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#18

Post by jamesbritt »

auston wrote: post #15
jamesbritt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does their want for data make this ethical?

I fail to see how it is unethical, provided it is disclosed that the number will be routed. Maybe I missed something... Plumber pays helphive $99 a year (see: http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/10/21/helphive-tests-pay... ) to be listed? In doing so, Plumber agrees to the terms that state his phone number will be re-routed? Plumber didn't read his agreement & now he is upset? Plumber can turn off this feature & he i…

The article says, "Up to now, HelpHive has been free for both consumers and businesses that sign up to be on the site."

But, according to to plumber, "These local business listings are not placed there by the business but have been harvested from other sources."

And, "If it isn’t illegal to place ads or listings to the public using our company’s name without permission and faking our phone numbers, we need a law now."

I see nothing that says the plumber signed up for anything, had any agreement, or paid any money. It appears that HelpHive took upon themselves to "help" this guy.

Unless I'm missing something, Karim Meghji's rebuttal completely skipped over the claim that HelpHive was harvesting company data from other sources and listing businesses without prior approval.

Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#19

Post by dschobel »

mrduncan wrote: post #12

Although not quite the same situation, this reminds me of the fiasco around GetSatisfaction at the beginning of the year. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=540540

I was thinking the same thing. Although when you think about it, fundamentally it's no different than Yelp or Zaggats. It's just another level of service layered on top of a directory.

Re: Plumber vs. programmer: a face-off over an online directory

#20

Post by jfager »

auston wrote: post #15
jamesbritt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does their want for data make this ethical?

I fail to see how it is unethical, provided it is disclosed that the number will be routed. Maybe I missed something... Plumber pays helphive $99 a year (see: http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/10/21/helphive-tests-pay... ) to be listed? In doing so, Plumber agrees to the terms that state his phone number will be re-routed? Plumber didn't read his agreement & now he is upset? Plumber can turn off this feature & he i…

You missed something.

HelpHive uses the same bullshit model that GetSatisfaction and Seth Godin's lame new project got railed for, where it sets up an official looking page for every company it can find, regardless of whether it has that company's permission or not, and basically tries to extort money from that company by hoarding customers who think they're dealing with the actual business.

The article you linked is about a 'feature' they're experimenting with, where a business signs up for the opportunity to pay for the leads from these pages. From a quick look at HelpHive's site, it looks like basic claiming is still free, but it specifically says: Your business contact info (email and business phone) are used when customers call or send messages to your business. Your business information isn't displayed on your business profile page... You are not permitted to enter your email, phone or other web contact information in other areas of your business profile page.

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