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Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

2015.djangocon.eu

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Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#11

Post by cjbprime »

parennoob wrote: post #7

"To complicate matters, most of the people in the industry are young men, a cohort not good at acknowledging their own problems, or understanding other people’s." Does this not seem like oversimplification and rampant stereotyping? I am a "young man" (well, below 30 anyway, though in SV I'm probably a bit long in the tooth), and it hurts to be constantly and systematically belittled in this manner. I have problems, a…

I don't understand why you support your linked article but not Djangocon's statement. They're saying the same things: men have problems too, we shouldn't dismiss them just because they (usually) aren't caused by structural oppression, men are not typically encouraged by society to deal with their problems in a healthy way and it's nice to fix that where we can.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#12

Post by coroxout »

hedwall wrote: post #10
parennoob wrote: post #7

"To complicate matters, most of the people in the industry are young men, a cohort not good at acknowledging their own problems, or understanding other people’s." Does this not seem like oversimplification and rampant stereotyping? I am a "young man" (well, below 30 anyway, though in SV I'm probably a bit long in the tooth), and it hurts to be constantly and systematically belittled in this manner. I have problems, a…

I read that sentence as 'there is a systemic problem in society that young men aren't allowed to be fragile, sad &c' and that with the overlap between men in tech and that problem, we have an opportunity to give you a nudge in the right direction, should you need it.

I read it as that too, and I applaud that sentiment, but I agree that the "or understanding other people's" seems a bit harsh in context.

I'd even agree that in my own early 20s I was quite bad at appreciating the perspectives and life experiences of people from different backgrounds, but it's not the best way to gain the trust of people who might benefit from the service!

I suppose they mentioned it to suggest that you may not feel comfortable opening up to your colleagues and/or social group, especially if they are young men who are traditionally expected to put on a front of everything being fine and may not be open to emotional/personal discussions, which is a valid concern; but it's a shame it sounds like it's questioning the empathy of many of its readers.

Forgot to say: this is a really nice idea, I hope it works well.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#13

Post by collyw »

Burnout and exhaustion are a mental health issues?

I though they were more of a problem with prioritizing things in your life.

Edit: I have suffered from both of these things myself, and I never considered myself to have mental health problems. In my case it was (still is) a case of taking a step back and re-prioritizing things. Apparently I shouldn't tell myself that?

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#14

Post by vtbassmatt »

lclarkmichalek wrote: post #2

Hooray for mental health awareness! I wonder if any of the big tech companies (Goog, FB, Appl) do anything like this, or more generally, do anything to help with employee mental health wellness.

Microsoft has a program for for employees as well as family members. It has a hotline (crisis or non-crisis) entry-point and can also plug into your standard health insurance for on-going issues. Can't remember the name, maybe something like "MS Cares".

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#15

Post by Dewie »

hedwall wrote: post #10
parennoob wrote: post #7

"To complicate matters, most of the people in the industry are young men, a cohort not good at acknowledging their own problems, or understanding other people’s." Does this not seem like oversimplification and rampant stereotyping? I am a "young man" (well, below 30 anyway, though in SV I'm probably a bit long in the tooth), and it hurts to be constantly and systematically belittled in this manner. I have problems, a…

I read that sentence as 'there is a systemic problem in society that young men aren't allowed to be fragile, sad &c' and that with the overlap between men in tech and that problem, we have an opportunity to give you a nudge in the right direction, should you need it.

I guess you didn't read the part about "have problems understanding other people's"? It seems like we need more awareness of mental health because (young) men are too emotionally stunted to relate to other people's problems.

Yes, it's also nice that they acknowledge that men sometimes have issues that they don't feel like they can tell other people about.

EDIT: Though strictly speaking there is a difference between "not being good at acknowledging your own problems" and "not being able to acknowledge your own problems because of societal factors". So I'm still not totally sure what they mean.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#16

Post by fredley »

collyw wrote: post #13

Burnout and exhaustion are a mental health issues? I though they were more of a problem with prioritizing things in your life. Edit: I have suffered from both of these things myself, and I never considered myself to have mental health problems. In my case it was (still is) a case of taking a step back and re-prioritizing things. Apparently I shouldn't tell myself that?

These are exactly the kind of assumptions that I think this programme is taking aim at. Not to critisise you for thinking them - I think this is how most people, and society in general, view these issues.

Telling someone whose burnt out that they just need to reprioritise their life is like telling a depressed person to just cheer up. It's more complicated than that, and there are often deeper things that need to be untangled before someone can get better.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#17

Post by Dewie »

collyw wrote: post #13

Burnout and exhaustion are a mental health issues? I though they were more of a problem with prioritizing things in your life. Edit: I have suffered from both of these things myself, and I never considered myself to have mental health problems. In my case it was (still is) a case of taking a step back and re-prioritizing things. Apparently I shouldn't tell myself that?

It's unclear whether you're asking a genuine question, or just using a rhetorical one to dismiss the idea altogether. I guess the lack of question mark on the second line points to it being the latter.

Consider that if you're already burned out - even if they "just" had to do with bad life prioritize - it's often not like you can just quit whatever you're doing and go on a retreat. You still have that 9-5 job, or whatever more heavy-weight responsibilities. Then it doesn't really matter what the original cause was - it's a mental health issue.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#18

Post by DanieleProcida »

coroxout wrote: post #12
hedwall wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that sentence as 'there is a systemic problem in society that young men aren't allowed to be fragile, sad &c' and that with the overlap between men in tech and that problem, we have an opportunity to give you a nudge in the right direction, should you need it.

I read it as that too, and I applaud that sentiment, but I agree that the "or understanding other people's" seems a bit harsh in context. I'd even agree that in my own early 20s I was quite bad at appreciating the perspectives and life experiences of people from different backgrounds, but it's not the best way to gain the trust of people who might benefit from the service! I suppose they mentioned it to suggest that…

Just to clarify: in saying that as a cohort, young men are not good at acknowledging their own difficulties or understanding other people's we don't mean that they don't care, or wouldn't care if they understood.

It's certainly not blaming them, or making a moral judgement. It's absolutely nothing to do with being "emotionally stunted". The gap is one of understanding, and it's a cultural one.

Since young men make up most of this industry, this tends to make the industry as a whole bad at understanding and dealing with these kinds of problems, which in turn makes it harder for the individuals in it to understand better.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#19

Post by proveanegative »

parennoob wrote: post #7

"To complicate matters, most of the people in the industry are young men, a cohort not good at acknowledging their own problems, or understanding other people’s." Does this not seem like oversimplification and rampant stereotyping? I am a "young man" (well, below 30 anyway, though in SV I'm probably a bit long in the tooth), and it hurts to be constantly and systematically belittled in this manner. I have problems, a…

Men are statistically less likely to seek help for health problems.

Re: Looking after your wellbeing at DjangoCon Europe

#20

Post by bshimmin »

sago wrote: post #5

Go Daniele, such a great guy and a passionate organizer.

I only know Daniele from usenet a good few years ago now, but certainly "great" and "compassionate" are two words that would certainly be applicable to him. I had no idea he was involved with Django or its conferences, but it's no surprise to me that he's having a positive impact.
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