Show me the salary! • Hacker News Board

Re: Show me the salary!

#11

Post by odonnellryan » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 1:58 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #3

We don't broadcast our salaries with our job listings because reality is how much we're willing to pay varies candidate to candidate. Interviewing, for example, someone with seven years experience vs. fifteen (I'm simplifying what matters greatly for the sake of argument - years experience is the easiest thing to put a number to) and we would pay way more for one than the other. Maybe that's unfair, but I don't think…

The problem is, and this has happened to me personally, is you'll be told the salary is "competitive" without further details even when pushed. Of course, everyone wants to save a buck, but when you've gone through multiple rounds of interviews...spending personal days...personal time doing projects.. then you get an offer that is 1/2 the starting range for the industry and location, you have a problem!

Re: Show me the salary!

#12

Post by Mister_Snuggles » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs:

- I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc, but the salary range tells me if getting what I want is even possible.

- I also don't apply for jobs that don't list an annual salary. I get the vibe, rightly or wrongly, that when you only list a monthly salary you don't expect to keep your new hire around very long.

- Jobs that are listed as "xx months with possibility of extension" are also right out. A job, for me anyway, represents a huge commitment and if the employer isn't willing to make that same commitment then I'm not interested.

Re: Show me the salary!

#13

Post by inthewoods » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:00 PM UTC

My experience is it doesn't matter what you post in the job description - you still have to wade through applications.

As for the article, I think the author lists a lot of real concerns that exist at companies - and then sort of dismisses them as if they are invalid because they aren't ideal. I'm sorry - but companies aren't ideal.

Let's also look at the function of job postings - from my point of view, the goal is to get as many candidates into the pipeline as possible and then get them qualified. I want to minimize the number of filters whenever possible.

Finally, he doesn't provide a lot of benefit from doing these actions aside from perhaps not having to wade through a lot of resumes - but as I mentioned above, I don't think that turns out to be the case.

Re: Show me the salary!

#14

Post by leeoniya » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:01 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #8

austenallred wrote: post #3

We don't broadcast our salaries with our job listings because reality is how much we're willing to pay varies candidate to candidate. Interviewing, for example, someone with seven years experience vs. fifteen (I'm simplifying what matters greatly for the sake of argument - years experience is the easiest thing to put a number to) and we would pay way more for one than the other. Maybe that's unfair, but I don't think…

This is counter to a lot of advice given, but because of this I try to address salary as one of the first questions during the initial contact I have with a potential employer. I'm fine with a range, but if they're not even in the same ballpark we've both just saved a lot of time. Similarly, if there's no way they can afford me it does us both good to wish each other well and move on.

yes, i've had major issues with this. i know what i will and will not accept and if my number is not something the employer is willing to pay, that should be the first thing discussed so we don't waste each other's time.

it's very annoying to be dragged through interviews for what turns out to be a laughable offer at the end.

Re: Show me the salary!

#15

Post by michaelt » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

e-dard wrote: post #4

austenallred wrote: post #3

We don't broadcast our salaries with our job listings because reality is how much we're willing to pay varies candidate to candidate. Interviewing, for example, someone with seven years experience vs. fifteen (I'm simplifying what matters greatly for the sake of argument - years experience is the easiest thing to put a number to) and we would pay way more for one than the other. Maybe that's unfair, but I don't think…

Then have a range? Of course you need to pay different employees different salaries, but that doesn't mean you can't expose potential employees to the salary they might expect to earn.

Someone who applied hoping for the top of the salary bracket, and who gets an offer for the bottom of the salary bracket, is still going to be upset. And if you advertise "Salary range: $0-$10,000,000" you aren't really telling people much anyway :)

Re: Show me the salary!

#16

Post by Mister_Snuggles » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #3

We don't broadcast our salaries with our job listings because reality is how much we're willing to pay varies candidate to candidate. Interviewing, for example, someone with seven years experience vs. fifteen (I'm simplifying what matters greatly for the sake of argument - years experience is the easiest thing to put a number to) and we would pay way more for one than the other. Maybe that's unfair, but I don't think…

You should have a budget for the position that you're hiring for, so a salary range should fall out of that. If you don't have a budget, how do you know what you CAN offer?

Re: Show me the salary!

#17

Post by MikeTaylor » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:04 PM UTC

This is simple. I won't waste my time applying for a job that doesn't even bother to tell me what they're going to pay -- any more than I would buy a car without knowing its engine capacity, mileage, etc. The idea is idiotic.

So: the only people who will apply for jobs with no salary listed are the ones desperate for any job.

Are they the people you want to hire?

Re: Show me the salary!

#18

Post by Mister_Snuggles » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:05 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #15

e-dard wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then have a range? Of course you need to pay different employees different salaries, but that doesn't mean you can't expose potential employees to the salary they might expect to earn.

Someone who applied hoping for the top of the salary bracket, and who gets an offer for the bottom of the salary bracket, is still going to be upset. And if you advertise "Salary range: $0-$10,000,000" you aren't really telling people much anyway :)

A range tells you if you and your potential employer are on the same page. I don't apply for a job expecting the top end of the range, but at the same time if the top end is less than what I'm willing to take then I don't waste my (and the employer's) time with an application.

If I saw a range like $0-$10,000,000, I wouldn't apply since it's clear that they are not taking the hiring process seriously.

Re: Show me the salary!

#19

Post by alecco » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:05 PM UTC

In my experience, if you are useful to the company where you are, job hopping is the only way to a meaningful salary increase or career change. Also, when you do a good job programming and are not an attention whore you become wall paper.

See previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8940820

Re: Show me the salary!

#20

Post by thirdtruck » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 2:06 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #5

I wonder what happens if test-engineer Bob finds out that there is a new job-opening for a test-engineer in his company, with a salary that is significantly higher than his own current salary.

Then, with any luck, he'll leave the company that's apparently underpaying him for one that will value his services more. That's a good outcome for Bob.

Compare with "What happens if engineer Bob finds out that his company has finally conceded to the current market rates, if only for new hires, but expects to continue under-paying their established employees?"