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Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

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Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#11

Post by joshbuddy »

wazoox wrote: post #7

For some mysterious reason, Americans always talk about TPP and never about TAFTA. But both are parts of the global US strategy, and both are secret agreements chock full with odious provision against the people. It's US imperialism at its worst, and both treaties are Trojan horses direct from the big lobbyists to get at last out of reach of the rule of law. If both these treaties come into existence, democracy will…

It seems that TAFTA and TTIP are the same thing, no? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/07/tafta-us-eus-trojan-tr...

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#12

Post by pdkl95 »

xnull6guest wrote: post #2

Here's the deal with the TPP. It is a critical component of the financial and strategic future of the United States. Put plainly, Asia and the Pacific Region is forecasted by both OECD and the International Monetary Fund to be the primary area of financial growth for the next several decades (while down in the latest report the long term prospects are encouraging). China continues to grow despite recent staggarings;…

So how much do they pay you to post that "press release"-style post that doesn't actually explain how the TPP would help? You've posted a lot of fear-mongering, but haven't actually shown what would be changed by the treaty.

As we already have very little in the way of tarriffs or other barriers to international trade, there isn't a lot that could be done to "improve trade" between US and asia. So why the treaty? The TPP is nothing more than an attempt to legalize the movement of capital.

I suggest reading this fun comic that explains the economic history and theories, and what is actually being done to try and consolidate even more wealth.

http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/

In the long run, once both goods and capital can be moved freely outside the reach of government regulation - and taxation - we find the true purpose of the TPP in these two terrifying words: Corporate Sovereignty.

John Oliver just a good example of the narcissism and greed that we can expect to get a lot worse if the TPP were to pass:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150216/17390930032/john-...

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#13

Post by walterbell »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelectiveEnforcem...

"SpongeBob SquarePants: In Bikini Bottom, harassing your business rival to near-suicide, destroying stuff because you've got the IQ of a turnip, or being an all-around annoying jackass with No Indoor Voice is perfectly acceptable. Littering, however, can get you an orange jumpsuit. Just ask Squidward or Mrs. Puff."

How I Met Your Mother: Marshall talked his way out of a ticket by offering to bring the cop to his barbecue. Robin, being a pretty girl, can get out of a ticket easily. Barney? No way. It doesn't help that he takes getting out of a ticket as a challenge and proceeds to get a dozen tickets as a means of proving that he can get out of one.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#14

Post by walterbell »

pdkl95 wrote: post #12
xnull6guest wrote: post #2

Here's the deal with the TPP. It is a critical component of the financial and strategic future of the United States. Put plainly, Asia and the Pacific Region is forecasted by both OECD and the International Monetary Fund to be the primary area of financial growth for the next several decades (while down in the latest report the long term prospects are encouraging). China continues to grow despite recent staggarings;…

So how much do they pay you to post that "press release"-style post that doesn't actually explain how the TPP would help? You've posted a lot of fear-mongering, but haven't actually shown what would be changed by the treaty. As we already have very little in the way of tarriffs or other barriers to international trade, there isn't a lot that could be done to "improve trade" between US and asia. So why the treaty? The…

There is a proposed US-EU equivalent of the Australia - Hong Kong arbitration panel for ISDS (Investor-State Dispute Settlement), http://www.computerworlduk.com/blogs/open-enterprise/ttip-up...

"So what the European Commission is proposing with the dispute resolution chapter is how future clashes with the US over those key social constructs should be resolved. And the answer is: by a three-person arbitration panel.

That is, key aspects of everyday life - the social, environmental and safety protections that have been laid down over decades or more - can be thrown out purely on the say of those three people if it is decided that they clash with TTIP. And remember: "The ruling of the arbitration panel shall be unconditionally accepted by the Parties."

So if, for whatever reason, the arbitration panel says a well-established regulation protecting health and safety, or the environment, has to go, well, it has to go, even if the vast majority of the public that it will effect disagrees."

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#15

Post by unfortunateface »

SpaceInvader wrote: post #10

It's all about money. Hollywood is greedy and wants more to create another mediocre (at best) movies.

A business wanting to make more money by charging for their good/bad/ok product? how evil.

I don't agree that copyright infringement should be a criminal rather than civil matter.

Even when I'm watching a mediocre movie, I still appreciate that it took lots of peoples time and money to create.

Edit: updated with word 'more' in response to response to this response of a response

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#16

Post by xnull2guest »

pdkl95 wrote: post #12
xnull6guest wrote: post #2

Here's the deal with the TPP. It is a critical component of the financial and strategic future of the United States. Put plainly, Asia and the Pacific Region is forecasted by both OECD and the International Monetary Fund to be the primary area of financial growth for the next several decades (while down in the latest report the long term prospects are encouraging). China continues to grow despite recent staggarings;…

So how much do they pay you to post that "press release"-style post that doesn't actually explain how the TPP would help? You've posted a lot of fear-mongering, but haven't actually shown what would be changed by the treaty. As we already have very little in the way of tarriffs or other barriers to international trade, there isn't a lot that could be done to "improve trade" between US and asia. So why the treaty? The…

I do not get paid to post to Hacker News. That would be a fun job... but alas I am not that lucky.

Why do you think my post was fearmongering, specifically?

As per the implication that corporations stand a lot to gain from the TPP - you'll see in my post I've said precisely the same thing. I would agree that there is a trend in the direction of corporate sovereignty - another large trend in this direction is what Bruce Schneier calls "Public-Private Partnership" where he suggests (rightly so IMHO) that as each is subject to different laws partnerships allow them to be bound by neither (he's gone so far as to call this partnership a "Modern Leviathan": http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/06/corpora...).

You can be sure that the TPP is in the interest of the US's strategic financial and diplomatic future. That's not a lie - nor is it fearmongering.

Regarding what can be improved regarding trade - most of it has to do with fixing international standards and laws - though there are other details being ironed out (is it Korea or Taiwan that is building a giant shipping port as part of the agreement?). That's actually why it's important for the US to have influence there. The US wants to have as much influence setting the standards and regulations regarding trade and goods as possible. An important secondary effect is that both the process of negotiation and resulting trade partners garners political clout for future joint (bi- and uni-lateral) ventures.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#17

Post by icebraining »

unfortunateface wrote: post #15
SpaceInvader wrote: post #10

It's all about money. Hollywood is greedy and wants more to create another mediocre (at best) movies.

A business wanting to make more money by charging for their good/bad/ok product? how evil. I don't agree that copyright infringement should be a criminal rather than civil matter. Even when I'm watching a mediocre movie, I still appreciate that it took lots of peoples time and money to create. Edit: updated with word 'more' in response to response to this response of a response

Parent said more money. They already make money - for example, 2014 was NBCUniversal's most profitable year in its history, and box office revenue in general has been rising.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#18

Post by xnull2guest »

defenestration wrote: post #6
xnull6guest wrote: post #2

Here's the deal with the TPP. It is a critical component of the financial and strategic future of the United States. Put plainly, Asia and the Pacific Region is forecasted by both OECD and the International Monetary Fund to be the primary area of financial growth for the next several decades (while down in the latest report the long term prospects are encouraging). China continues to grow despite recent staggarings;…

Thanks for putting TPP in an international perspective. One question, why would an Asian partner accept those strict copyright rules if it puts a big part of their population at risk? What's in it for them?

Capital and trade flows, foreign investment, port access, shipping rights and partnerships. It is also not a one-way street; they get to negotiate in areas they feel with benefit their countries the most as well.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#19

Post by elementalest »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #8

I can't speak for the US, but I'm just not buying the fear about the TPP. I honestly can't see the Australian judiciary sending people to jail, or issuing large fines, for sharing media. Suppose the sentencing is mandatory leaving the judiciary with no choice. We'll see how long that lasts, but very well then, I'll happily spend 3 months in an Australian prison for sharing media. I think you'd probably have to book i…

They will likely throw a few major offenders in jail as exemplars. For the rest they will probably use various (im-proportionately) large fines to continue to discourage people from filesharing.

"How can law enforcement possibly police this?"

Given that breaching copyright would be classified as a criminal offence with the TPP, and meta-data access is only for criminal purposes, meta-data and an automated system can be used. So once the system is in place, very easily.

"C'mon, seriously? Is there anyone who doesn't know risk of imprisonment doesn't act as deterrent. There are Australian's about to be executed in Indonesia for drug trafficking. Should be pretty obvious."

Risk of imprisonment may not deter some, but it may deter enough for them to feel its worth it.

Re: Go to Prison for File Sharing? That's What Hollywood Wants in the TPP Deal

#20

Post by dantheman »

walterbell wrote: post #4

This is a complex topic with many nuances, all of which need public input. Glynn Moody at Computerworld UK has been providing detailed coverage on TTIP issues at http://www.computerworlduk.com/blogs/open-enterprise/ttip-up... , which has similar provisions to TPP. The US has a legislative process that reduces the chance of bundling of non-contested and practical trade agreements with debatable propositions. Fast Trac…

Fast track specifies what must and what must not be in a treaty. If a treaty meets those conditions, then it goes for a yes or no vote with no amendments -- that's it. It allows for negotiations by making very clear what is acceptable.

Stopping the fast tracking of this bill would be useful or even better, getting the contentious points be blocked during the fast track process so that any treaty negotiated would not have these items.

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