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Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

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Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the right attitude. For extra points do serious burn-ins, especially on network hardware, keep a good eye on those error counters as well as mcelog in case you got a faulty ram in there. It's all part of commissioning a server, especially if you host at a cheap outlet like rackspace.

a cheap outlet like rackspace. I've heard rackspace called lots of things, but this is the first time I've heard someone call them "cheap". Have their prices gone down lately?

On a relative scale they're cheap, what they call 'managed hosting' though is not what I'd call managed hosting. I think they call it managed hosting because they will do backups for you or something like that :)

The Planet/EV1, which was my choice when hosting in the US earlier was quite a bit cheaper, but service there was absolutely terrible.

It got to the point where I reprogrammed the DRAC cards to lock out their sys admins.

After The Planet took over we had all kinds of issues, then finally they had an explosion in a transformer in one of their datacenters taking down all of our stuff for days on end. After that we moved out.

They said it had nothing to do with them and we would be credited for the downtime if we stayed for at least another 6 months, but we had by then already signed up elsewhere and restored from backups. I figure if you're willing to run your operation that close to the red line then we should be taking our business elsewhere. They were lucky nobody got hurt.

Right now we're hosting in three places, leaseweb, mojohost and virtual acccess. VXS is by far the best but expensive, leaseweb is somewhere in the middle and for high volume mojohost is absolutely unbeatable.

btw, you have me curious what else you've heard rackspace called :)

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a cheap outlet like rackspace. I've heard rackspace called lots of things, but this is the first time I've heard someone call them "cheap". Have their prices gone down lately?

On a relative scale they're cheap, what they call 'managed hosting' though is not what I'd call managed hosting. I think they call it managed hosting because they will do backups for you or something like that :) The Planet/EV1, which was my choice when hosting in the US earlier was quite a bit cheaper, but service there was absolutely terrible. It got to the point where I reprogrammed the DRAC cards to lock out thei…

btw, you have me curious what else you've heard rackspace called :)

Most of what I've heard about rackspace is that they had a good reputation once, but have been resting on their laurels and now have higher prices and worse service than other hosts -- but this is all 2nd hand and I have no direct experience with them, so I was curious to hear other perspectives.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a relative scale they're cheap, what they call 'managed hosting' though is not what I'd call managed hosting. I think they call it managed hosting because they will do backups for you or something like that :) The Planet/EV1, which was my choice when hosting in the US earlier was quite a bit cheaper, but service there was absolutely terrible. It got to the point where I reprogrammed the DRAC cards to lock out thei…

btw, you have me curious what else you've heard rackspace called :) Most of what I've heard about rackspace is that they had a good reputation once, but have been resting on their laurels and now have higher prices and worse service than other hosts -- but this is all 2nd hand and I have no direct experience with them, so I was curious to hear other perspectives.

Ok. I think if they worked a bit harder at justifying that 'managed hosting' bit then they would actually be worth it.

With both mojohost and leaseweb I basically only bug them when there are network or hardware issues, for the rest the problems are mine. VXS is a different story, that's where all the web servers are, their operators help with warding off all kinds of attacks, proactively scan for security issues and so on. 24x7 cell phone of the manager of the hosting facility.

It's very addictive, that level of service.

They charge a pretty penny for it, but imo it's worth it, it is still much cheaper than having a full time sysadmin for our stuff, and they probably do a better job of it.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a cheap outlet like rackspace. I've heard rackspace called lots of things, but this is the first time I've heard someone call them "cheap". Have their prices gone down lately?

On a relative scale they're cheap, what they call 'managed hosting' though is not what I'd call managed hosting. I think they call it managed hosting because they will do backups for you or something like that :) The Planet/EV1, which was my choice when hosting in the US earlier was quite a bit cheaper, but service there was absolutely terrible. It got to the point where I reprogrammed the DRAC cards to lock out thei…

I don't have experience with a wide range of hosting companies, but out of five, VXS is the only one about which I have had nothing to complain. They are very good. The primary difference with other companies is that their staff actually know their stuff.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#15
post #2

If you never run top '1' then you shouldn't be operating servers for customers.

If you're bragging about 300ms average response times...

If you're using "spidey-sense" to determine the underperforming elements in your software stack...

There are a number of uncomfortable ideas in this article.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#16
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

attempting to ignore snarkyness, but failing - and that says what about the dozens of rackspace engineers configuring and monitoring and supporting the box over the past two years?

There once was a really nice quote here on HN: "you can't outsource responsibility". If in two years time you've never ever had a look at what kernel you are running, especially while tuning a system for performance you only have yourself to blame. Don't tell me you're running a 'stock' kernel and never bothered tuning it for your application, or considered upgrading it. Also, in your resources list you should have t…

I really do not dig this tone. The guy is obviously not a system admin. He paid top dollar for rackspace managed hosting precisely so he wouldn't have to do the kinds of things you mention.

"You can't outsource responsibility" is utter nonsense. It is completely impossible to "own" responsibility for everything important in a complex society. Meaningless platitudes should not distract from the fact - Rackspace did not do their job.

Yes, he messed up. He messed up by making assumptions and not checking Rackspace's work more closely. That's not the same as messing up in your own work. His post is a reminder to be more careful checking on the work of your "upstream". There's no need to pile on with the "if you didn't know 'top 1' you shouldn't be running a startup!" etc.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There once was a really nice quote here on HN: "you can't outsource responsibility". If in two years time you've never ever had a look at what kernel you are running, especially while tuning a system for performance you only have yourself to blame. Don't tell me you're running a 'stock' kernel and never bothered tuning it for your application, or considered upgrading it. Also, in your resources list you should have t…

I really do not dig this tone. The guy is obviously not a system admin. He paid top dollar for rackspace managed hosting precisely so he wouldn't have to do the kinds of things you mention. "You can't outsource responsibility" is utter nonsense. It is completely impossible to "own" responsibility for everything important in a complex society. Meaningless platitudes should not distract from the fact - Rackspace did no…

I didn't say he shouldn't be running a startup, I said he should not be managing the servers their customers stuff runs on.

As for the tone, you may disagree with that but that does not distract from the fact that if you operate a business, that you should know your stuff.

And if you outsource something you should at least know how to check up on the bits that you've outsourced.

Outsourcing does not mean that your responsibility disappears, it simply changes from 'doing' to 'monitoring'.

Maybe rackspace did not do their job, I have no insight in the communications that went on between the party involved and rackspace.

All we get here is a pointing finger without any responsibility taken, that is not a realistic picture.

It could be the difference in the wording of the upgrade request ("please install another CPU in our machine" vs "please install and configure another CPU in our machine").

Even then, rackspace probably should get part of the blame, but really not all of it. The fact that the situation persisted for two years is completely on the OPs account, in two years you have many more opportunities than your hosting provider to find this out, after all they will leave your machine alone unless it malfunctions and there is no indication that they ever were requested to look in to this, and when they were they actually found the problem.

I quote from the article "In investigating an unrelated issue, we followed up with Rackspace on a Kernel patch that couldn’t be applied to our server. One of the technicians immediately realized why – we were not running the SMP kernel."

How come someone is trying to patch a kernel, can't apply the patch and then still doesn't clue in to the situation ?

Also, we do not know if the SMP kernel was installed or not, it might have been, and then on the final reboot the wrong kernel was brought up. And that's a very easy mistake to make.

But dmesg would tell you in a heartbeat, as would 'top '1'', which you would be using plenty of times while debugging performance issues to make sure all your cores are doing the right amount of work.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#18
post #15
post #2

If you never run top '1' then you shouldn't be operating servers for customers.

If you're bragging about 300ms average response times... If you're using "spidey-sense" to determine the underperforming elements in your software stack... There are a number of uncomfortable ideas in this article.

If you're swapping out your web server software without doing some more careful analysis first...

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There once was a really nice quote here on HN: "you can't outsource responsibility". If in two years time you've never ever had a look at what kernel you are running, especially while tuning a system for performance you only have yourself to blame. Don't tell me you're running a 'stock' kernel and never bothered tuning it for your application, or considered upgrading it. Also, in your resources list you should have t…

I really do not dig this tone. The guy is obviously not a system admin. He paid top dollar for rackspace managed hosting precisely so he wouldn't have to do the kinds of things you mention. "You can't outsource responsibility" is utter nonsense. It is completely impossible to "own" responsibility for everything important in a complex society. Meaningless platitudes should not distract from the fact - Rackspace did no…

I'm not a big fan of the tone, either, however, jacquesm is spot-on in his assessment.

For one thing, my understanding of Rackspace's business practices -- and I've only dealt with them peripherally, so I might be a bit wrong here -- is that they "manage" things like their network, and the actual server hardware, and stuff like that. So, if you want a CPU upgrade, sure, they'll do that. If you need your server rebooted, they'll do that too. But, they don't have anyone sitting there monitoring your system's performance metrics and doing your sysadmin duties for you.

The way I read it, Rackspace did do their job: they upgraded the hardware. It was up to the server admin -- not Rackspace -- to check that the software was then configured correctly.

And finally, I don't generally agree with statements of the form, "If you don't know X, you shouldn't be doing Y", but ... looking at dmesg and top are both really, really, really standard sysadmin operations. Entry level stuff, really. Sysadmin work doesn't just mean messing around with Apache's configuration; there are many more nuances, and it's likely that their system is vulnerable to problems that they don't even know about.

Re: Cat /proc/cpuinfo or don't trust your cores to rackspace part i

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not dig this tone. The guy is obviously not a system admin. He paid top dollar for rackspace managed hosting precisely so he wouldn't have to do the kinds of things you mention. "You can't outsource responsibility" is utter nonsense. It is completely impossible to "own" responsibility for everything important in a complex society. Meaningless platitudes should not distract from the fact - Rackspace did no…

I'm not a big fan of the tone, either, however, jacquesm is spot-on in his assessment. For one thing, my understanding of Rackspace's business practices -- and I've only dealt with them peripherally, so I might be a bit wrong here -- is that they "manage" things like their network, and the actual server hardware, and stuff like that. So, if you want a CPU upgrade, sure, they'll do that. If you need your server reboot…

The tone is probably in large part because the OP does not take any responsibility for his own part in this and instead is pointing his finger at a third party that may have been partially at fault. But that is by no means sure.

This is typical with what I think is a real problem in society, the 'externalization of blame'.

Inability to see your own responsibility is a serious issue, and it is really pervasive. If I were in the OPs position I would be headbutting a piece of concrete for 20 minutes to make sure I never ever make a mistake like that again, and I would thank rackspace for finally finding the fault that I could have noticed in 5 minutes two years ago.

That's why you have post-delivery checklists, burn in tools and inventory management, staples of everybody that has # on machines that do customer work.

I'll try to keep my 'tone' better under control, apologies for that.

At least it wasn't in Dutch ;)

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