Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag • Hacker News Board

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#11

Post by akrolsmir » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 8:29 PM UTC

A bit of a different perspective: as a CS undergrad in Silicon Valley, internships routinely pay upwards of $20k for a summer, complete with relocation -- simultaneously defraying costs of tuition and providing real work experience.

Far from being a mechanism to filter for the upper class, the interns I've worked with came from a diverse range of backgrounds, local, foreign, and all across the States. The tech industry might like to overstate the amount of meritocracy in its system, but at least in this regard internships seem to do well at providing more equal opportunities.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#12

Post by tuna-piano » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 8:31 PM UTC

Just a personal experience with an internship abroad.

I spent a semester on a combined internship / study abroad program in London (work 2 days, class 2 days). The cost of the program was about ~$15k including living space. While that may sound expensive, I was already paying ~$15k in tuition a semester as an out of state student at a state school. So studying abroad actually ended up being cheaper (with the included living space) than staying at my normal university. There were also several scholarships available to study abroad students to further reduce the cost.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#13

Post by ilamont » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:00 PM UTC

tuna-piano wrote: post #12

Just a personal experience with an internship abroad. I spent a semester on a combined internship / study abroad program in London (work 2 days, class 2 days). The cost of the program was about ~$15k including living space. While that may sound expensive, I was already paying ~$15k in tuition a semester as an out of state student at a state school. So studying abroad actually ended up being cheaper (with the included…

Did something similar when I was an undergrad. It was arranged through my school. Worked out to be cheaper, and was a great experience -- probably the best of my undergrad years. Led to other opportunities that I never would have had, had I stayed in the U.S. that semester.

EDIT: Just looked at the cost for the current semester - it's about 30% less than regular tuition + room & board, although the semester abroad is 3 weeks shorter. Airfare is not factored in.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#14

Post by jjoonathan » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC

screwedup wrote: post #4

rdtsc wrote: post #2

Like article says, unpaid internships, especially in expensive cities, is also a reliable way to select people from upper crust i.e. parents can bankroll their stay in high priced neighborhoods. Sometimes I wonder if that is what some firms and banks are doing. In this case some are using student loans for it. Which is an interesting twist on things.

To be fair, paying for an internship might have higher returns than paying for classes. Although that doesn't mean an internship abroad is worth a whole lot more than an internship at home.

I'm pretty sure the article was questioning the global optimality not the local optimality of the practice; it came across more as "hey, look at this stupid system" than "hey, look at this stupid guy."

Which isn't to say that the article has done convincing global analysis, just that I find handwaving about the "local optima serve as good proxies" assumption to be even less convincing that my gut feelings about the issue.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#15

Post by MathsOX » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #2

Like article says, unpaid internships, especially in expensive cities, is also a reliable way to select people from upper crust i.e. parents can bankroll their stay in high priced neighborhoods. Sometimes I wonder if that is what some firms and banks are doing. In this case some are using student loans for it. Which is an interesting twist on things.

If you're referring to investment banks, they pay roughly around what the upper ends of SV pays. I just signed a summer analyst internship that's prorated at 90k. I didn't hear of any firms that have structured summer analyst programs, with active campus recruitment, paying any less than 70k prorated to the term of the internship.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#16

Post by maxxxxx » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #2

Like article says, unpaid internships, especially in expensive cities, is also a reliable way to select people from upper crust i.e. parents can bankroll their stay in high priced neighborhoods. Sometimes I wonder if that is what some firms and banks are doing. In this case some are using student loans for it. Which is an interesting twist on things.

You see something similar in congress in DC. A lot of internships there are unpaid too so most interns come from "good" families.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#17

Post by dperny » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

akrolsmir wrote: post #11

A bit of a different perspective: as a CS undergrad in Silicon Valley, internships routinely pay upwards of $20k for a summer, complete with relocation -- simultaneously defraying costs of tuition and providing real work experience. Far from being a mechanism to filter for the upper class, the interns I've worked with came from a diverse range of backgrounds, local, foreign, and all across the States. The tech indust…

Yeah, but you have to be very, very good to get one of those internships. I'm a mid-top tier programmer (better than most of my cohort) from a modest state university. I've been applying everywhere, and there's no way in hell I'll make close to $20k. I'm pretty good at what I do, but there's a gulf between what you get if you're good and what you get if you really good.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#18

Post by curiouscat321 » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 10:12 PM UTC

akrolsmir wrote: post #11

A bit of a different perspective: as a CS undergrad in Silicon Valley, internships routinely pay upwards of $20k for a summer, complete with relocation -- simultaneously defraying costs of tuition and providing real work experience. Far from being a mechanism to filter for the upper class, the interns I've worked with came from a diverse range of backgrounds, local, foreign, and all across the States. The tech indust…

I've worked one of these $20k SV internships, so I'd like to give my two cents. I worked for a large startup that hired around ~100 interns - not a Google or Microsoft by any means.

There is a relative meritocracy for these positions. All of my fellow interns were exceptional. But, this was not much of a meritocracy. All of the interns went to Ivy-caliber schools. Many of them went to expensive preparatory schools (and pointed it out). I find it hard to believe that any of these interns had financial constraints.

Does this mean SV isn't a meritocracy? No. But, there is a undeniable bias towards Ivy League schools where the students are predominately wealthy.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#19

Post by arthurcolle » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 10:19 PM UTC

MathsOX wrote: post #15

rdtsc wrote: post #2

Like article says, unpaid internships, especially in expensive cities, is also a reliable way to select people from upper crust i.e. parents can bankroll their stay in high priced neighborhoods. Sometimes I wonder if that is what some firms and banks are doing. In this case some are using student loans for it. Which is an interesting twist on things.

If you're referring to investment banks, they pay roughly around what the upper ends of SV pays. I just signed a summer analyst internship that's prorated at 90k. I didn't hear of any firms that have structured summer analyst programs, with active campus recruitment, paying any less than 70k prorated to the term of the internship.

Congratulations! I signed with an investment bank as well, you working in Manhattan?

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#20

Post by poikniok » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 10:21 PM UTC

dperny wrote: post #17

akrolsmir wrote: post #11

A bit of a different perspective: as a CS undergrad in Silicon Valley, internships routinely pay upwards of $20k for a summer, complete with relocation -- simultaneously defraying costs of tuition and providing real work experience. Far from being a mechanism to filter for the upper class, the interns I've worked with came from a diverse range of backgrounds, local, foreign, and all across the States. The tech indust…

Yeah, but you have to be very, very good to get one of those internships. I'm a mid-top tier programmer (better than most of my cohort) from a modest state university. I've been applying everywhere, and there's no way in hell I'll make close to $20k. I'm pretty good at what I do, but there's a gulf between what you get if you're good and what you get if you really good.

Don't sell yourself short. I am a fairly average programmer coming from a state school, and I made 1800 a week plus housing last summer, and am going to be making 2000 a week plus housing this coming summer. If you are really a mid-top tier programmer opportunities like this and better will be available to you.