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A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

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Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#11

Post by patio11 »

germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

This War of Mine is the only time I've ever felt genuinely troubled by a moral choice in a videogame, and it was for an unscripted reason. Spoiler in ROT13:

Oehab gur pbbx jnf bar bs zl cnegl zrzoref. Ur jnf fubg va n enaqbz envq frireny qnlf ntb, naq jr'er bhg bs zrqvpvar naq onaqntrf. Vg vf irel pyrne gung Oehab jvyy qvr vs ur qbrf abg trg onaqntrq, cebonoyl jvguva 2 qnlf, juvpu zrnaf jr unir rknpgyl 1 avtug gb fpniratr fhssvpvrag pybgu gb znxr n onaqntr naq gura bar qnl gb perngr naq nccyl vg.

Hasbeghangryl, orpnhfr bs creinfvir erfbhepr fubegntrf, jr unir rkunhfgrq nyy bs gur pybgu va nernf juvpu ner fnsr gb fpniratr va, naq ner yrsg gb punapr Gur Fhcreznexrg, juvpu vf znexrq ba gur znc nf orvat envqrq ol fbyqvref. Jr fryrpg nabgure CP, urefrys nyfb zvyqyl jbhaqrq, gb tb gb gur fhcreznexrg.

Nsgre neevivat ng gur fhcreznexrg, fur ybpngrf fhssvpvrag pybgu gb onaqntr Oehab. Jr pna rfpncr gur Fhcreznexrg jvgubhg vapvqrag abj, ohg rkcybevat vf pbfgyrff nf ybat nf jr'er abg pnhtug naq jr zvtug svaq fbzrguvat irel hfrshy, yvxr zrqvpvar be pbssrr. Fb jr tb hc gb n qbbe naq yvfgra ng vg, gelvat gb qrgrezvar jurgure vg vf fnsr gb bcra.

Oruvaq gur qbbe vf n lbhat tvey orvat nffnhygrq ol n fbyqvre. Fur pevrf sbe uryc.

Guhf gur qvyrzzn. Va nal bgure tnzr, jr ohfg qbja gur qbbe, xvyy gur fbyqvre, naq onfx va bhe urebvp qrrqf. Va Guvf Jne bs Zvar, guvf nyzbfg pregnvayl erfhygf va bhe CP trggvat fubg. Vs gurl fheivir, jr jvyy unir gb hfr gur onaqntr ba gurz, naq Oehab jvyy pregnvayl crevfu. Jr unir n evfx-serr rfpncr ebhgr, ohg vg erdhverf nonaqbavat na vaabprag gb gur ubeebef bs jne.

Nsgre npghny erny-yvsr fbhyfrnepuvat nobhg gur qrpvfvba, V beqre gur CP gb yrnir.

Oehab vf qrnq jura jr erghea ubzr.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#12

Post by pavel_lishin »

Zikes wrote: post #9
germinalphrase wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well. I am attracted to bringing games into the learning environment because they can offer unique opportunities for action/reaction/reflection (in addition to other benefits) - but I am indeed more interested in complicated decision making rather than simply choosing Red Team v. Blue Team. For instance, I would love to see a game like "Papers Please" with a stronger element of conseque…

To the opposite extreme, there's also The Stanley Parable. On the surface it's a humorous narrative seemingly about being a cubicle drone, but it's ultimately about the futility of choice.

One could argue that Bioshock Infinite is about the same thing.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#13

Post by Zikes »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #12
Zikes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the opposite extreme, there's also The Stanley Parable. On the surface it's a humorous narrative seemingly about being a cubicle drone, but it's ultimately about the futility of choice.

One could argue that Bioshock Infinite is about the same thing.

I liked that, but none of the player's choices purported to be very important, either.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#14

Post by CocaKoala »

patio11 wrote: post #11
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

This War of Mine is the only time I've ever felt genuinely troubled by a moral choice in a videogame, and it was for an unscripted reason. Spoiler in ROT13: Oehab gur pbbx jnf bar bs zl cnegl zrzoref. Ur jnf fubg va n enaqbz envq frireny qnlf ntb, naq jr'er bhg bs zrqvpvar naq onaqntrf. Vg vf irel pyrne gung Oehab jvyy qvr vs ur qbrf abg trg onaqntrq, cebonoyl jvguva 2 qnlf, juvpu zrnaf jr unir rknpgyl 1 avtug gb fpn…

That's heavy, and makes me seriously want to play This War of Mine; I'll have to check it out on steam when I get home.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#15

Post by Zikes »

patio11 wrote: post #11
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

This War of Mine is the only time I've ever felt genuinely troubled by a moral choice in a videogame, and it was for an unscripted reason. Spoiler in ROT13: Oehab gur pbbx jnf bar bs zl cnegl zrzoref. Ur jnf fubg va n enaqbz envq frireny qnlf ntb, naq jr'er bhg bs zrqvpvar naq onaqntrf. Vg vf irel pyrne gung Oehab jvyy qvr vs ur qbrf abg trg onaqntrq, cebonoyl jvguva 2 qnlf, juvpu zrnaf jr unir rknpgyl 1 avtug gb fpn…

Gaming critic TotalBiscuit also cites that game as having made him feel genuinely troubled about his actions, also unscripted [1].

Juvyr rkcybevat n ohvyqvat sbe erfbheprf ur xvyyf jung ur gubhtug jnf n onaqvg fgnaqvat thneq. Vzzrqvngryl gur "onaqvg"'f fvfgre pbzrf nybat naq zbheaf ure fvoyvat'f qrngu, fb qvfgenhtug fur vtaberf gur xvyyre. Ur ernyvmrf vg jnf ab onaqvg, ohg whfg nabgure snzvyl gelvat gb trg nybat yvxr ur jnf.

[1] http://youtu.be/YNNAdTAM5os

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#16

Post by rcthompson »

I think another influence that the article doesn't touch on much are games like Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Horror games in which you have no weapons and can't fight back against the monsters; your only defense is being terrified and running away and hiding, and the resources you do have (in Amnesia, light sources) are very limited.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#17

Post by saraid216 »

Zikes wrote: post #3
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

"Moral" choices seem to be a trend lately, especially with BioWare RPGs and their ilk (Dragon Age, Mass Effect). Unfortunately, most of the consequences are fairly minor, mostly only revolving around the opinions of your in-game acquaintances. The events unfold a little differently sometimes, but the end result is almost always the same. The worst of it is that they always main-line you into one moral extreme or the…

I think part of this is because few people tend to think of morality as a question. They know what's right and presume everyone else either agrees or is insane in some way. This makes it difficult to frame a morality decision as an actual choice; it becomes coercive instead.

I wonder what would happen if you surveyed game designers and offered them some trolley problem [1] variant and said, "Write up an explanation for which decision you choose." How many would discuss the pros and cons of both decisions? How many of them would look for a third option? How many of them would even be able to explain their decision? How many of them would be able to make a decision?

But the nuance and detail in their response, to me, would be the real indicator. If someone can dive deeply into the question, I think they'd be able to offer real moral choices in other situations, too.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#18

Post by simonebrunozzi »

CocaKoala wrote: post #14
patio11 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This War of Mine is the only time I've ever felt genuinely troubled by a moral choice in a videogame, and it was for an unscripted reason. Spoiler in ROT13: Oehab gur pbbx jnf bar bs zl cnegl zrzoref. Ur jnf fubg va n enaqbz envq frireny qnlf ntb, naq jr'er bhg bs zrqvpvar naq onaqntrf. Vg vf irel pyrne gung Oehab jvyy qvr vs ur qbrf abg trg onaqntrq, cebonoyl jvguva 2 qnlf, juvpu zrnaf jr unir rknpgyl 1 avtug gb fpn…

That's heavy, and makes me seriously want to play This War of Mine; I'll have to check it out on steam when I get home.

Me too.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#19

Post by skuhn »

Zikes wrote: post #13
pavel_lishin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that Bioshock Infinite is about the same thing.

I liked that, but none of the player's choices purported to be very important, either.

Bioshock Infinite doesn't purport to give the player more than the standard illusion of choice, but I think it's more interesting how choice is handled in the narrative.

The characters think that they're making big, important decisions that reshape their world. It turns out that they weren't really.

Re: A new wave of videogames offers lessons in powerlessness, scarcity and failure

#20

Post by thret »

patio11 wrote: post #11
germinalphrase wrote: post #2

Another attractive element of these games is the moral questions that sometimes arise. I know this is particularly true in "This War of Mine" (e.g. - choosing to take in a starving child that comes knocking on your door, but who also becomes a resource burden on your small tribe). Questioning and reflecting on decision making, moral choice, and consequences of (in)action are a central focus of literature study, so I…

This War of Mine is the only time I've ever felt genuinely troubled by a moral choice in a videogame, and it was for an unscripted reason. Spoiler in ROT13: Oehab gur pbbx jnf bar bs zl cnegl zrzoref. Ur jnf fubg va n enaqbz envq frireny qnlf ntb, naq jr'er bhg bs zrqvpvar naq onaqntrf. Vg vf irel pyrne gung Oehab jvyy qvr vs ur qbrf abg trg onaqntrq, cebonoyl jvguva 2 qnlf, juvpu zrnaf jr unir rknpgyl 1 avtug gb fpn…

That may be the most compelling game review I've ever read.
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