Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#11

Post by toyg » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:22 AM UTC

I've been there. There are actually two different issues in your situation: the boring job you can't leave, and the exciting job you can't start. You have to pick one, and go pedal-to-the-metal.

If you think your moonlighting has merit but you feel overwhelmed, look for remote partners who can work with you, and/or go hunting for finance. Finance is critical, because it will allow you to part ways with DumbCo without putting you and your family into hardship. If you can't face the idea of asking around for money, then you'll likely never be suited for business anyway, so just give up and dedicate yourself to the family or to bettering the company you work for, or to find a better (remote) job -- that's more or less what I did, back in the day; as depressing as it sounds, it worked out OK.

Btw, if at any point in time your employer (pedestrian web-design agency, by any chance?) takes you to task for you being "distracted", taking too many personal calls etc, turn it around as their fault: they clearly cannot motivate you, and anyway everyone else is playing on their phones.

The alternative to all this is just to put your head down and revolutionise the company you work for. Do things the way you think they should be done, the way that will result in higher productivity. Believe it or not, a lot of micromanagers simply don't have the bottle to repeat a challenge more than once, and after a while they'll probably leave you alone or recognise your approach actually has merits.

Both scenarios are really a way to say that you'll have to man up. There is no easy way out; but nothing risked, nothing gained...

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#12

Post by stealthflyer » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:26 AM UTC

trevaa wrote: post #7

stealthflyer wrote: post #6

I can relate, it is hard to balance the loathing/apathy, ambition, and family. Family comes first, so maybe the hours spent on the side project needs to be re-evaluated. If you have a relaxed environment, maybe you can layer your work and side project. Maybe you might find a coworker who also can help out. I would recommend talking to your manager to see what options are available (less hours, more pay, more challeng…

The 2000 character limit removed the aim part... I just want to build a business for the sake of it. I want a good wage. I don't want to be a multimillionaire (but would be nice) - I just want security and the ability to work for myself. With regards to making work more challenging in the day job, that's the problem. They aren't open to anything. It's all set in stone. Hell, I'm not even allowed to refactor or write…

So curiosity is the primary motivation. You don't have to be first to market. That makes it easier, you can focus on making it better. Or just launch it now, you will get a different experience (e.g. Kickstarter or something). Breaking even and making money takes a long while, so you have to be able to fix the day job first.

Have you tried a lunch and learn to build up a case? Teaching people something new and answering questions is a different type of challenge and allows you to build some support to fix things that seem to be set in stone. Is there any way to do your day to day a different way? What about trying a new tool to record testing results?

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#13

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:26 AM UTC

Read? Sounds like a sad place but if you're really in a place where you can 'play games on your phone and sleep' then create enough automation to meet what ever goals your manager sets for you, and then start learning more stuff. You might also find organizational dynamics and management books fun to see how they apply in your current situation.

Some of the other folks there might be in the same boat you are, they are also your potential hires if you started your own company in the same area, so get to know them, figure out their strengths and weaknesses, what they are motivated by and what doesn't motivate them.

Talk to the managers and see what they are trying to get done (you mention they micro manage a lot) perhaps you can puzzle out what the group of them have been tasked to accomplish. If you like solving puzzles that can be entertaining for a while.

Look around for things that don't work well (are the printers always out of paper? Phones constantly ringing with no one answering?) see if you can engineer a way to solve one of those problems.

The bottom line is take ownership of challenging yourself to do something productive, don't wait for someone to either tell you what to do or "give you permission" to do that.

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#14

Post by trevaa » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:29 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #11

I've been there. There are actually two different issues in your situation: the boring job you can't leave, and the exciting job you can't start. You have to pick one, and go pedal-to-the-metal. If you think your moonlighting has merit but you feel overwhelmed, look for remote partners who can work with you, and/or go hunting for finance. Finance is critical, because it will allow you to part ways with DumbCo without…

My opposition to seeking money is that I don't believe there is much of the way of angel investors in Australia, but my main opposition is taking an investment and then having a new boss to answer to. I don't want to chance getting into the same situation by answering to someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about.

With regards to inciting change.. I have tried for twelve months now, they can't be helped. It's not web design, its financial software - they use notepad for tracking bugs and excel for project management.

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#15

Post by candu » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:34 AM UTC

Start interviewing elsewhere - anywhere you can find. Even if you don't plan to leave, having another option boosts morale and gives you more confidence to discuss concerns with your current company. It also gives you leverage in negotiating with other places you interview at - even if your local options are limited, maybe you can reach a remote-work arrangement with a company elsewhere in Australia. (Also: don't be discouraged if your first few interviews don't work out. Interviewing is a skill, and like any other skill it improves with practice.)

Take time for yourself and your personal development. While working on your startup at work is extremely inadvisable (see your legal concerns above)...if you feel like the pace at work is slow, do your work as quickly as possible and use the remaining time to move forward in some way. Learn a new language. Solve programming contest problems. Start a Toastmasters chapter at work. These sorts of things increase your sense of personal control over your situation; I cannot overemphasize how important that is.

Isolation is another dangerous trap. Find local developer meetups or board game nights or friendly pickup sports events. Talk with others about your situation. (For the same reason, asking here on HN is an excellent step to take. I'd wager most of us have encountered some variant of your problem. Also, asking people who aren't close friends can be surprisingly liberating, as you don't have as much emotional investment in their response.)

Hope this helps :)

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#16

Post by Mandatum » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:34 AM UTC

trevaa wrote: post #14

toyg wrote: post #11

I've been there. There are actually two different issues in your situation: the boring job you can't leave, and the exciting job you can't start. You have to pick one, and go pedal-to-the-metal. If you think your moonlighting has merit but you feel overwhelmed, look for remote partners who can work with you, and/or go hunting for finance. Finance is critical, because it will allow you to part ways with DumbCo without…

My opposition to seeking money is that I don't believe there is much of the way of angel investors in Australia, but my main opposition is taking an investment and then having a new boss to answer to. I don't want to chance getting into the same situation by answering to someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about. With regards to inciting change.. I have tried for twelve months now, they can't be help…

There are - I'm in New Zealand which is a similar but much, much smaller market. You'll need to travel - just as you would in rural New Zealand, you'll have to go where the investors are and meet them.

Wellington and Auckland are the big cities here - I assume Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane for you? Are there meetups in Adelaide? Go and ask questions!

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#17

Post by rjdagost » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:37 AM UTC

Once due to life circumstances I was stuck for a few years in a job I hated for much of the same reasons (limited growth, very bored, yet simultaneously very stressed due to ridiculous deadlines). One thing that helped me get by was to have my employer pay for me to learn new things. I really wanted to learn a particular programming language, so gradually over time I built up a compelling case that learning this language would help the business. And it did help the business, especially after my employer paid for me to become an expert. After my life circumstances changed and I was able to move on I had a great new skill on my resume that propelled me to much better opportunities.

So my point is you should try to turn your current predicament into a launchpad for bigger and better things.

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#18

Post by ryan-allen » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:37 AM UTC

My opinion is that you're putting undue stress on yourself with the startup. Your number one problem is that your 9-5 ain't so good and you need either another job or another income stream.

Startup income isn't going to happen over night, so I think your efforts are not worth it given you're already stretched with the 9-5. I would be spending time on looking for either another job or a remote gig so you can give the 9-5 the flick.

Have you considered moving to Sydney or Melbourne? There are a lot of development jobs in these cities that pay well for people with experience.

Don't worry about the start up, I think. It's like worrying about wining second division on the lottery. Only work on it if you find it cathartic. Find another job, move cities if you need to.

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#19

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:38 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Techniques for surviving a job you loathe?

#20

Post by GFischer » Mon, Jan 12, 2015, 12:41 AM UTC

Mandatum wrote: post #16

trevaa wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opposition to seeking money is that I don't believe there is much of the way of angel investors in Australia, but my main opposition is taking an investment and then having a new boss to answer to. I don't want to chance getting into the same situation by answering to someone who really doesn't know what they're talking about. With regards to inciting change.. I have tried for twelve months now, they can't be help…

There are - I'm in New Zealand which is a similar but much, much smaller market. You'll need to travel - just as you would in rural New Zealand, you'll have to go where the investors are and meet them. Wellington and Auckland are the big cities here - I assume Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane for you? Are there meetups in Adelaide? Go and ask questions!

Mandatum is right, there must be some kind of financing in Australia, it's a huge and prosperous country.

Edit: I found a lot with just a basic web search. I understand they might not want to fund you if you stay part-time though.

Edit again: maybe you can get some kind of government agency to help you out, there are Early Stage Funds, Grants, etc... plenty of help around :)

http://www.business.gov.au/grants-and-assistance/grant-finde...