Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#11

Post by titanomachy » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:45 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #7

JamesBell wrote: post #6

So since we all develop cancer cells at some point doesn't this same logic hold to not "feed" them? And we might not be able to starve constantly but we can avoid producing insulin. I hope more studies can prove the links between dietary choices and cancer.

A biology student told me that Cancer cells are "running" in a partial state and don't require the same amount of nutrients that normally functioning cells do, therefore if you stop feeding cells altogether, the healthy ones will die first.

The idea behind this article is that the normal cells will slow down in response to starvation, while the cancer cells will keep going at full tilt because their regulatory mechanisms are shot.

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#12

Post by adwf » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:45 PM UTC

Rainymood wrote: post #10

adwf wrote: post #5

Note that this paper is heavy on theory, not so much on the evidence. The only "proof" of this conjecture is right at the end where they mention 10 people tried starvation before chemo and reported feeling less side-effects afterwards. I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond…

>I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond weight loss. Weightloss. To me, still means in I fast (skip breakfast/lunch and drink coffee) and start eating when I get back home out of work. I love it because I build up a 'caloric buffer', for when something unexpected happens (ra…

Exactly, it's all about "in I figure I can stick to a diet better when it's only 1 day in 4 when I have to cut calories. Whereas if I was any good at cutting a moderate amount of calories every day, I probably wouldn't need to be dieting in the first place! ;)

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#13

Post by mrfusion » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

Rainymood wrote: post #10

adwf wrote: post #5

Note that this paper is heavy on theory, not so much on the evidence. The only "proof" of this conjecture is right at the end where they mention 10 people tried starvation before chemo and reported feeling less side-effects afterwards. I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond…

>I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond weight loss. Weightloss. To me, still means in I fast (skip breakfast/lunch and drink coffee) and start eating when I get back home out of work. I love it because I build up a 'caloric buffer', for when something unexpected happens (ra…

Do you think you'd do better or worse with a 5:2 diet? Want to do IF too but I haven't decided on an approach yet.

Also this NPR article [1] seemed to imply 12 hours of fasting per 24 hours would be enough. That's actually simply skipping breakfast which is really easy.

[1] http://www.sciencefriday.com/segment/12/05/2014/you-are-when...

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#14

Post by mrfusion » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

adwf wrote: post #12

Rainymood wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond weight loss. Weightloss. To me, still means in I fast (skip breakfast/lunch and drink coffee) and start eating when I get back home out of work. I love it because I build up a 'caloric buffer', for when something unexpected happens (ra…

Exactly, it's all about "in I figure I can stick to a diet better when it's only 1 day in 4 when I have to cut calories. Whereas if I was any good at cutting a moderate amount of calories every day, I probably wouldn't need to be dieting in the first place! ;)

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that any diet based on will power just won't work. I've done will-power based diets for up to 8 months before but ultimately I just give in again.

That's why I'm hopeful IF might help.

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#15

Post by mih » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

adwf wrote: post #5

Note that this paper is heavy on theory, not so much on the evidence. The only "proof" of this conjecture is right at the end where they mention 10 people tried starvation before chemo and reported feeling less side-effects afterwards. I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond…

A more scientific study on the benefits of fasting leading to improved cell regeneration was posted on HN a few days ago. Here's the corresponding journal paper http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.stem.2014.04.014 (paywalled)

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#16

Post by DanielBMarkham » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

So if the doctor says you have cancer but they can't start the chemo for a week or two, just stop eating? At best you kill off some of the cells and give your immune system a slight boost. At worst you lose some weight that might buy you a few days later on down the line?

I'm not sure there's anything useful here.

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#17

Post by jbob2000 » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #16

So if the doctor says you have cancer but they can't start the chemo for a week or two, just stop eating? At best you kill off some of the cells and give your immune system a slight boost. At worst you lose some weight that might buy you a few days later on down the line? I'm not sure there's anything useful here.

You didn't understand the article. You aren't trying to starve the cancer cells, you're trying to toughen up the normal cells.

When starved, normal cells 'harden up' so to speak, whereas the cancer cells continue business as usual. When the chemo is administered, normal cells aren't as easily destroyed, but the cancer cells are.

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#18

Post by stoicy » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

Rainymood wrote: post #10

adwf wrote: post #5

Note that this paper is heavy on theory, not so much on the evidence. The only "proof" of this conjecture is right at the end where they mention 10 people tried starvation before chemo and reported feeling less side-effects afterwards. I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond…

>I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond weight loss. Weightloss. To me, still means in I fast (skip breakfast/lunch and drink coffee) and start eating when I get back home out of work. I love it because I build up a 'caloric buffer', for when something unexpected happens (ra…

The "in People get fat because they eat the wrong food, of which the effect of making them hungry and eat even more is only one of the many detrimental effects of unsuitable food for us or other animals.

I don't write this to change your mind, but hope that if someone else reads this, at least this might give them some encouragement, so that they might persist through to read about the issue themselves. It really is not easy to swim against the current.

Our bodies are far more than a simple caloric furnace. But luckily fatness, cancer and a myriad of other metabolic diseases resolve themselves once and for all without calorie counting when one starts to eat correctly. That is, plenty of animal fats, meat, eggs and fish, and very little carbohydrates of any kind. Large portions and infrequently. This makes and keeps you healthy, and you cannot overeat even if you try. Simple and elegant, which is always a prerequisite for any correct theory about nature.

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#19

Post by vinceguidry » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:24 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #14

adwf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it's all about "in I figure I can stick to a diet better when it's only 1 day in 4 when I have to cut calories. Whereas if I was any good at cutting a moderate amount of calories every day, I probably wouldn't need to be dieting in the first place! ;)

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that any diet based on will power just won't work. I've done will-power based diets for up to 8 months before but ultimately I just give in again. That's why I'm hopeful IF might help.

I lost 40 pounds eating once a day and walking. 205-165. It was the quickest, most dramatic weight loss I ever experienced. For three months nobody could see me without remarking on how much better I looked.

Yes, it will help.

Re: Starvation Based Chemotherapy: A Novel Approach for Cancer Treatment [pdf]

#20

Post by adwf » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

mih wrote: post #15

adwf wrote: post #5

Note that this paper is heavy on theory, not so much on the evidence. The only "proof" of this conjecture is right at the end where they mention 10 people tried starvation before chemo and reported feeling less side-effects afterwards. I'm actually trying out an intermittent fasting diet right now for weight loss. I'm just always skeptical of new fad diets when they start claiming all sorts of health benefits beyond…

A more scientific study on the benefits of fasting leading to improved cell regeneration was posted on HN a few days ago. Here's the corresponding journal paper http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.stem.2014.04.014 (paywalled)

Yeah, that was the discussion that got me going on the intermittent diet ;)

I'm just too used to seeing extraordinary dietary benefits being promoted for all sorts of fad foods/diets like blueberries, grapefruit, atkins diet, paleo diet, etc... So I felt like pointing out that there was very little in the way of experimental evidence in that paper (I'm from a physics background, love my data).

With any luck this won't be another one of those papers that gets perverted in the press to "Fasting cures cancer!"