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Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

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Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#11

Post by slackstation »

VLM wrote: post #4

I'd like to buy the book related to the language, looks interesting, I am willing to pay list price, but fedex wants a mere $64 to ship it. Meanwhile I'm an electronics experimenter kind of guy and I currently have some weird semiconductors arriving from China where the entire order including shipping was only about $45 (I believe the shipping portion was $8). Admittedly a very small and light packet compared to a te…

Why in 2015 are we flying paper half-way around the world?

Doesn't Amazon (and others) have a print-on-demand service that would be more cost effective and not waste the fuel of flying 20lbs of paper across an ocean?

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#13

Post by VLM »

hga wrote: post #7
VLM wrote: post #4

I'd like to buy the book related to the language, looks interesting, I am willing to pay list price, but fedex wants a mere $64 to ship it. Meanwhile I'm an electronics experimenter kind of guy and I currently have some weird semiconductors arriving from China where the entire order including shipping was only about $45 (I believe the shipping portion was $8). Admittedly a very small and light packet compared to a te…

What problems do you have with 7 pounds for airmail and 20 pounds for tracked airmail? I've used the airmail option to the US for the first edition of The Book of Shen without problem. There's also online resources for learning that if you have enough functional programming background ought to be able to get you started: http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/index.html Added: it's a 400 page print on demand book, I…

"What problems do you have with 7 pounds for airmail and 20 pounds for tracked airmail?"

That Amazon will ship me print on demand in two days for "free", lulu charges $4, my favorite electronic seller in China charges $2 per item (admittedly each item is lighter than a book) I mean, really, guys?

I'll buy the book, looks interesting, I'll just wait until distribution picks up. I thought about getting a unlicensed ebook copy from "the usual sources" and just donating about 25 bucks to the project, but I'll probably wait.

There's a business concept where you never say "no". If you don't want to do something, like, say, ship outside the UK, you just charge "F you money", or whatever the UK translation is, as a fee. "So how about you rewrite that backend in cobol?" "No problem, but that's going to be kinda expensive, like $750/hr, just so you know" "In that case, lets not do that" I see those kind of shipping charges and I hear this message being delivered. Its not that I can't afford it, its that I don't like being told to F off. Someone doesn't want to ship internationally, in 2015, well, ok, but then they should not be offended if they get made fun of a little bit.

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#14

Post by steveklabnik »

slackstation wrote: post #11
VLM wrote: post #4

I'd like to buy the book related to the language, looks interesting, I am willing to pay list price, but fedex wants a mere $64 to ship it. Meanwhile I'm an electronics experimenter kind of guy and I currently have some weird semiconductors arriving from China where the entire order including shipping was only about $45 (I believe the shipping portion was $8). Admittedly a very small and light packet compared to a te…

Why in 2015 are we flying paper half-way around the world? Doesn't Amazon (and others) have a print-on-demand service that would be more cost effective and not waste the fuel of flying 20lbs of paper across an ocean?

As someone who reads physical books almost exclusively, print on demand is getting better, but offset still reigns supreme.

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#15

Post by [deleted] »

VLM wrote: post #13
hga wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problems do you have with 7 pounds for airmail and 20 pounds for tracked airmail? I've used the airmail option to the US for the first edition of The Book of Shen without problem. There's also online resources for learning that if you have enough functional programming background ought to be able to get you started: http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/index.html Added: it's a 400 page print on demand book, I…

"What problems do you have with 7 pounds for airmail and 20 pounds for tracked airmail?" That Amazon will ship me print on demand in two days for "free", lulu charges $4, my favorite electronic seller in China charges $2 per item (admittedly each item is lighter than a book) I mean, really, guys? I'll buy the book, looks interesting, I'll just wait until distribution picks up. I thought about getting a unlicensed ebo…

[deleted]

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#16

Post by hga »

steveklabnik wrote: post #14
slackstation wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in 2015 are we flying paper half-way around the world? Doesn't Amazon (and others) have a print-on-demand service that would be more cost effective and not waste the fuel of flying 20lbs of paper across an ocean?

As someone who reads physical books almost exclusively, print on demand is getting better, but offset still reigns supreme.

I really like books, although I'm comfortable with online/ebook reading, and I have to say that the company chosen for this book delivers superb quality compared to every US origin print on demand book I've looked at, at least for the first edition of this book. I can't tell it from offset (although some embedded links came our grey because I assume they were delivered in color and not caught in galleys). Even the color artwork looks great---ironically, it's the back corner where the company puts its standard ISBN/price/self-advertising rectangle that looks bad when looked at very closely and makes clear someone dropped the ball somewhere (maybe that's an artifact of the author choosing such a high quality for the cover).

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#17

Post by lkrubner »

If you are interested in Shen, you might be interested in previous discussions on Hacker News:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8250316

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8359796

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3117235

Also, check out Fogus's summary of Lisps:

http://blog.fogus.me/2011/05/03/the-german-school-of-lisp-2/

I signed up as a donor who gives 5 pounds a month to this project, because the ideas going into this project are extremely innovative and deserve support.

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#18

Post by nutate »

46 functions in Kλ... this is exactly what people like me need in a programming language. I have a hard enough time remembering if it's add() append() push() to throw something onto an array in Python or Javascript. Knowing that clojure has a cool syntax or cool function-to-do-something isn't all that awesome when I need to just code something.

If I was all in on a language and not a jack of all trades, I'd love those special features. As is, I like a simple list of reserved words that I have a half chance of remembering. Glad to see this funding concept worked for the community.

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#19

Post by Sanddancer »

slackstation wrote: post #11
VLM wrote: post #4

I'd like to buy the book related to the language, looks interesting, I am willing to pay list price, but fedex wants a mere $64 to ship it. Meanwhile I'm an electronics experimenter kind of guy and I currently have some weird semiconductors arriving from China where the entire order including shipping was only about $45 (I believe the shipping portion was $8). Admittedly a very small and light packet compared to a te…

Why in 2015 are we flying paper half-way around the world? Doesn't Amazon (and others) have a print-on-demand service that would be more cost effective and not waste the fuel of flying 20lbs of paper across an ocean?

The amount of fuel used on that twenty pounds is trivial when factored in with all the tennis rackets, shirts, etc that are also in that plane. However, this doesn't get to the crux of the problem that print on demand is still immature technology compared to offset printing, and offers an inferior good. Running a printing press is an artform, and pure digital doesn't offer the same quality tools quite yet.

Re: Next version of Shen will be BSD licensed

#20

Post by Sanddancer »

slackstation wrote: post #11
VLM wrote: post #4

I'd like to buy the book related to the language, looks interesting, I am willing to pay list price, but fedex wants a mere $64 to ship it. Meanwhile I'm an electronics experimenter kind of guy and I currently have some weird semiconductors arriving from China where the entire order including shipping was only about $45 (I believe the shipping portion was $8). Admittedly a very small and light packet compared to a te…

Why in 2015 are we flying paper half-way around the world? Doesn't Amazon (and others) have a print-on-demand service that would be more cost effective and not waste the fuel of flying 20lbs of paper across an ocean?

The amount of fuel used on that twenty pounds is trivial when factored in with all the tennis rackets, shirts, etc that are also in that plane. However, this doesn't get to the crux of the problem that print on demand is still immature technology compared to offset printing, and offers an inferior good. Running a printing press is an artform, and pure digital doesn't offer the same quality tools quite yet.
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