Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip • Hacker News Board

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#11

Post by lordnacho » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 6:11 PM UTC

I'm reasonably sympathetic so some libertarian views. But I've never been able to motivate myself to read Ayn Rand. Can someone tell me how a fiction book can make a good argument for any political view? Is it just a thin layer of story-writing on top of actual, evidence-based argument? Or is it like I fear, just a long story where everything goes right for the guys with the right views? Because I'm pretty sure you could write a book where the righteous commies win.

Considering how big the book is, I'd like to know before I try to read it.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#12

Post by teekert » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 6:35 PM UTC

"For eight days last summer, a new generation of Randians was indoctrinated in the auditoriums of The Venetian. Where better to absorb Atlas Shrugged 's teachings than in a city of extremes?"

Indoctrinatied? What a way to start but he sure makes his stance clear with that sentence.

As someone who really values Ayn Rands work (I am one of those who was influence by Atlas Shrugged), I find it difficult to get through this piece (as it is with things you disagree with). I find it very biased yet it never really gives any good arguments against objectivism.

Of course one should not treat Ayn Rand as a god and be dogmatic about her ideas, and certainly don't judge her by the people that do.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#13

Post by Tycho » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 6:39 PM UTC

I think one of the appealing things about Objectivism is that it's a complete top-to-bottom guide to how life should be lived for individuals, communities and nations. Most rival philosophies seem narrower. Christianity, for instance, has lots of advice for dealing with individuals but seems disconnected from politics. Something like Marxism talks about the organisation of industries and classes but not so much about personal situations. Mainstream political movements seem more like packages of stances (on things like abortion, welfare, immigration...) with no clear unifying principles. Then there's interesting philosophies like say Utilitarianism, that lots of people know about and write about but seemingly no one seriously adheres to as a way of life.

If you agree with the principles of Objectivism you can more or less follow it as a way of life, without doing anything drastic like abandoning all your worldly possessions, or feeling like a hypocrite.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#14

Post by lucio » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 6:50 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

I'm reasonably sympathetic so some libertarian views. But I've never been able to motivate myself to read Ayn Rand. Can someone tell me how a fiction book can make a good argument for any political view? Is it just a thin layer of story-writing on top of actual, evidence-based argument? Or is it like I fear, just a long story where everything goes right for the guys with the right views? Because I'm pretty sure you c…

It is a epic history based on a novel philosophy. The philosophy defines "right/good" values based on objective observation of reality, and then concludes that the top value for a being with reason is it's own life. So good/right things are those things that enhance your life and the things you value (your family, your love, your principles). One top principle is to "respect others reason and will, do not start aggression or go against the will of another reasoning being"

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#15

Post by Tycho » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 7:09 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

I'm reasonably sympathetic so some libertarian views. But I've never been able to motivate myself to read Ayn Rand. Can someone tell me how a fiction book can make a good argument for any political view? Is it just a thin layer of story-writing on top of actual, evidence-based argument? Or is it like I fear, just a long story where everything goes right for the guys with the right views? Because I'm pretty sure you c…

Have you ever read Socratic dialogues? It's a bit like that, where characters come to embody certain philosophical positions, except the scope is broadened beyond just discussion/debate and into action (which allows it to be a novel).

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#16

Post by dang » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 7:26 PM UTC

This story was killed by user flags. That was a bad use of flagging, so we've overridden it. The article is clearly substantive enough to pass the minimal bar for this site. Whether it's great or not, or even good or not, is a different question.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#17

Post by dang » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 7:29 PM UTC

techpeace wrote: post #7

techpeace wrote: post #3

http://wonkette.com/561974/john-oliver-presents-the-philosop...

Don't forget to downvote both comments, Randians!

The HN guidelines ask you not to bait others into downvoting.

All: Please only make comments which improve the signal/noise ratio of a thread.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#18

Post by jessaustin » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 7:32 PM UTC

andrewvc wrote: post #8

In this thread: Randians downvoting all dissenting views so as not to disturb their carefully constructed echo chambers. Hi guys!

Umm, that's not what I see. It looks more like the Rand aficionados are getting downvoted, not that that is actually any more valid than what you hoped for would have been.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#19

Post by SkyMarshal » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 7:32 PM UTC

phelmig wrote: post #10

I liked Atlas Shrugged when I read it. But I think if Dagny Taggart would see today's world she wouldn't be too happy as well. While capitalism won over communism the corruption of governments didn't die out it just became more clever. I sometimes toy with the thought of writing a second ending to be Atlas Shrugged where old Dagny looks at our world and can't grasp what is wrong with it.

In Atlas Shrugged she didn't just rail at communism, but also at the use of political "pull" over merit to shape (distort) the economic landscape. That's still very relevant in many domains today, though I think the "Dagney's" of the world (and most hackers and other astute observers) just as easily grasp it then as now.

Re: Meeting Ayn Rand on the Las Vegas Strip

#20

Post by dang » Thu, Dec 18, 2014, 7:36 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #18

andrewvc wrote: post #8

In this thread: Randians downvoting all dissenting views so as not to disturb their carefully constructed echo chambers. Hi guys!

Umm, that's not what I see. It looks more like the Rand aficionados are getting downvoted, not that that is actually any more valid than what you hoped for would have been.

The downvote situation is always in flux. That's one of the reasons not to post comments about downvotes on HN: by the time people read the comment, it will probably be obsolete.

The greater reason not to post such comments, of course, is that they're inevitably off-topic and tedious.