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Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

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Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#11

Post by manacit »

rspeer wrote: post #4

I was hoping for something that explained the part where they get you to pay a higher fare by tracking you on the Web. But maybe an insider site like this wouldn't be willing to talk about that. There are many sites that describe this happening, such as [1]. And I've seen it happen to me: a fare would go up by $50 while I was searching, and opening a private browsing window would make it go back down. [1] http://www.…

I don't mean to sound standoffish, but as far as I know this isn't true.

I have yet to see real proof that airline companies get you to pay a higher fare by tracking your searches/browsing. While I'm sure you saw a $50 difference, it was likely a slightly different search, which is almost always what happens when people claim they've noticed this.

About a year ago, someone on reddit went out and offered a year of reddit gold for anyone that could, there was nobody: https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/1ekv6e/lpt_bou...

As recently as last week, someone claimed they had reproduced, but they used slightly different search params and ended up with something totally different: http://www.reddit.com/r/travel/comments/2okml5/for_anyone_pl...

This myth is rife with anecdotal proof, but I've yet to see anything concrete.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#12

Post by michaelochurch »

johnlabaptise wrote: post #7
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

"if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices" Business aren't obligated to offer you prices that you think are fair. I don't understand why people think they are. When people say something is a rip-off or unfairly priced what they really mean is that they aren't willing to pay that price for the product. What a business chooses to charge you is entirely up to th…

I don't think that it's dynamic pricing that makes people hate the airlines. It's the rash of bad-faith activity around the dynamic pricing.

For example, decreasing legroom and forcing disabled people into business class tickets they wouldn't have needed, were it 20 years ago when coach seats had enough room, is bad-faith activity. Likewise, this "boarding group" nonsense where "Group 5" means you'll have no overhead space and have to wait at a fucking baggage claim, despite carrying your bags to the terminal, is bad-faith activity. So is (in Asia) denying airport lounge access to coach passengers instead of pricing it a la carte as is done in the US, and so is the non-transferability of tickets (which is disingenuously argued to be because of 9/11, but really is just there to steal from people).

There's a ton that airlines do that is dishonest, in bad faith, and generally engineered to make for an unpleasant experience in coach, just to make up for the continuing decline in demand for first-class travel due to (a) teleconferencing in business, and (b) better medications for sleep and relaxation (e.g. modern benzodiazepines).

If you want to charge some narcissistic business executive 10x for 50% more room, go ahead. But that's not what we're talking about.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#13

Post by chrisseaton »

phantom784 wrote: post #10
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

$30 for a day pass to a first class lounge? I can't believe that at all. Can you show me which airports and lounges offer that because I'm going to take them up on it.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#15

Post by michaelochurch »

phantom784 wrote: post #10
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

In the US, you can. In less enlightened countries, that's not the case. Of course, for a 2-hour domestic flight, the lounge is just a perk rather than a necessity.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#16

Post by spdustin »

chrisseaton wrote: post #13
phantom784 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

$30 for a day pass to a first class lounge? I can't believe that at all. Can you show me which airports and lounges offer that because I'm going to take them up on it.

Um... All airports with United or American lounges? It's $50 a day, though. With American, they actively try to sell you a day pass on their in-airport check-in terminals.

Edit: please don't correct actual life experience with a quote from Wikipedia.

United Club is the name of their "first class" lounge, as people incorrectly refer to them. Those United Club Lounges have complimentary booze [1]. And no airline is going to allow a passenger to board who had obviously consumed the amount of alcohol you're referring to. I know: I practically lived at the T3 United Club lounge at O'Hare for many years, I was traveling so much. Not as much any more, but when I've been delayed significantly and I'm super-stressed because I'm speaking at a conference or something, I still occasionally get a day pass.

The United lounges you're referring to are considerably more elite, and most travelers don't even know they exist. Again, taken from actual experience and not a quick perusal of a Wikipedia article.

American's "Admiral's Club" [2] no longer offers complimentary liquor.

[1] http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/airport/loung...

[2] https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/airportAmenities/A...

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#17

Post by fennecfoxen »

chrisseaton wrote: post #13
phantom784 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

$30 for a day pass to a first class lounge? I can't believe that at all. Can you show me which airports and lounges offer that because I'm going to take them up on it.

yeah, I've seen $30 for a day pass for your guest when you've got a fancy membership, and Delta day-pass rates tend to be closer to $50 (similar to the rates they have here -- https://www.delta.com/skyclub/purchasemembership_performRequ... -- but you need to buy it associated with a ticket somehow so the only rates listed are bulk rates).

You can also buy the membership, or apply for the credit card that gets you the membership as a miscellaneous benefit.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#18

Post by icebraining »

michaelochurch wrote: post #12
johnlabaptise wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices" Business aren't obligated to offer you prices that you think are fair. I don't understand why people think they are. When people say something is a rip-off or unfairly priced what they really mean is that they aren't willing to pay that price for the product. What a business chooses to charge you is entirely up to th…

I don't think that it's dynamic pricing that makes people hate the airlines. It's the rash of bad-faith activity around the dynamic pricing. For example, decreasing legroom and forcing disabled people into business class tickets they wouldn't have needed, were it 20 years ago when coach seats had enough room, is bad-faith activity. Likewise, this "boarding group" nonsense where "Group 5" means you'll have no overhead…

For example, decreasing legroom and forcing disabled people into business class tickets they wouldn't have needed, were it 20 years ago when coach seats had enough room, is bad-faith activity.

How are coach ticket prices now compared to 20 years ago? It's not bad faith if it's a way of decreasing prices (by packing more people) for most clients.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#19

Post by yummyfajitas »

michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

"Uber shit" is having a single transparent price that fluctuates with market forces. That's not remotely what airlines do.
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