Ask HN: Is being underpaid/working for free normal in SV? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is being underpaid/working for free normal in SV?

#11

Post by MalcolmDiggs » Tue, Dec 09, 2014, 11:45 PM UTC

Yes unfortunately situations like that are fairly commonplace, but that doesn't mean there's anything fair/legal/proper about them.

I try not to take offense when someone makes me such an offer; I just lose all confidence in their abilities. If you can't even raise/hustle/scrounge-up enough cash to meet the legal minimum wage it's hard to have faith in your abilities as a CEO.

I have no problem with the idea of taking a drastic pay-cut for a startup you believe in, but there's a limit to how far your generosity should extend.

Re: Ask HN: Is being underpaid/working for free normal in SV?

#12

Post by partisan » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 12:58 AM UTC

If you take a look at the help wanted forums at gamedev.net, you see a lot of propositions of this nature, "potential to pay after we get a deal with a publisher". Basically, "work for me for free and if you have to think there is money coming to work for me for free then go ahead and imagine it". The gamedev crowd has gotten past this. Sadly, I think we will see more of this in the startup world before people in that area get a healthy bit of skepticism about these types of offers.

Re: Ask HN: Is being underpaid/working for free normal in SV?

#13

Post by aledalgrande » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 1:14 AM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #8

There is zero legal way to operate like that in the United States. If you employ someone, you must put them on a normal payroll schedule, must pay them at least minimum wage, and must begin withholding taxes and the other usual payroll responsibilities. In California specifically, you must receive at least two paychecks per calendar month. Failing to do any of that is a violation of state and federal labor laws, and…

I totally get that, Dan. People are in need of a job and sometimes even the perspective of a future salary lures them into unfair deals, so that's why founders still can get away with no payment and not get reported.

Re: Ask HN: Is being underpaid/working for free normal in SV?

#14

Post by aledalgrande » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 1:23 AM UTC

partisan wrote: post #12

If you take a look at the help wanted forums at gamedev.net, you see a lot of propositions of this nature, "potential to pay after we get a deal with a publisher". Basically, "work for me for free and if you have to think there is money coming to work for me for free then go ahead and imagine it". The gamedev crowd has gotten past this. Sadly, I think we will see more of this in the startup world before people in tha…

Found one: http://www.gamedev.net/classifieds/item/3696-black-helga-loo...

Re: Ask HN: Is being underpaid/working for free normal in SV?

#15

Post by AnotherMarc » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:03 PM UTC

Seems pretty shady. Deferred raise, or bonus based on revenues, would be fine.

I assume in this particular example, they mean to replace cash now with options, but it's worded strangely. If you defer all cash (or everything over min wage) with options, I'd consider that a founder.

If the startup is "hot" -- and that's a definition everyone will have to make for what matters to them -- you could consider maximizing equity and minimizing cash. The odds are low, true, but you may still be able to legitimately decide it's worth it. But pretty tough for me to imagine a scenario where it's worth it for 30+ people to do.